Christian Witness Ministries

Dear friends, it is a reality that Pentecostalism is founded on a falsehood, that tongues will resume in some kind of latter day revival. The whole movement has been founded on a misconception. We must jettison the whole tainted package, and return instead, reverently and trembling, to the Word of the Lord, the more sure Word of prophecy, and to the Fear of the Lord. Come out from among them, and get back to the Bible.

By Andrew Craig on Jun 6, 2008

You paint with far too broad a brush Andrew. Your opening statement is without foundation. Certainly neo-Pentecostalism is false but traditional classical Pentecostalism is totally biblical and supportive. While there were some aberations within early Pentecostalism as there has always been in every movement including the Baptists and especially the strict Baptists with their totally false Cessationism, most early Pentecostals were “people of the book”, who strove to ensure their teachings, including the teaching about tongues speaking, were based upon Scripture. I am Pentecostal but as you know I decry all of the extremes and the present nonsense associated with recent movements such as Toronto and Pensacola and the latest Florida scams, and false teachers like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland et al.

Let us NOT go beyond that which is written - and that applies as much to you as it does to me and to all of us.

Kind regards IN CHRIST,

Philip L. POWELL.
http://www.cwmfellowship.org
http://www.christian-witness.org

By philip on Jun 6, 2008

Thank you Phil for your emails. To be blunt you have confirmed to me what I discerned when I was told about this. I am a convert from the Islamic priesthood as you know. My mother was a spiritualist medium and all my previous generations worked a lot with ministry in dark sinister goings-on, and when I see the “church” tell me God is moving in mighty outpouring of fire and the people are not leading others to Christ or there is no deep heart of repentance in those present then I always doubt these claims.
2nd, they are always asking for money. Yes, we all need money to live and to support each other but when they ask for money so the Holy Spirit can work better and more media can support it and it is God’s will, that always troubles me. I have travelled a lot and never asked for money for electricity or phones or media and still have seen 1000s come to Christ. Jesus never needed it and I do know this if God is in a revival there is no need to beg for money to keep the “outpouring” going.
3rd–the big one–I believe there also is an outpouring of evil in these days and there is a counterfeit in the churches even in the UK that say God is here when there is no love between the brethren and no conviction , righteousness and judgment. I do know God uses anybody and if the Lord is in it, why would He introduce a new way of “revival” and not use the Written Word and His living word to confirm it? He doesn’t need mass American sales pitches to promote His Gospel. The bare bone fact—is Christ moving in the hearts of men and women? Yes, revival can be big and mighty but now this is a counterfeit. Well my friend may God be with you in your service to God. Press on for Him. It seems to me this is a big con.
Greetings sent from Sharif
Your brother Rev Sharif Gulsher.

By Anonymous on Jun 11, 2008

Hi Philip,

Great article.

I’ve been following postings on various blogs regarding the Todd Bentley “Bam” revival & am writing to you to let you know it has hit Australia in a big way. He spoke on the Gold Coast, Australia earlier this year March 5-9, 2008 http://video.aol.com/video-detail/todd-bentley-receives-a-prophetic-word-about-the-florida/1167683044 This video is interesting in that “pastor” Rob DeLuca proclaimed a ‘prophecy’ about a Boomerang with Todd Bentley’s name on it sweeping across Canada, England, Australia, New Zealand & USA.

For example, on Monday I was listening to the local “Christian” radio station (107.3FM) & they were promoting Dr Sasha Alexander, who recently came back from Florida bringing the “anointing” – for reference his website is www.revival-flame.org .

It’s extremely concerning that so many people are falling for this rubbish – indeed the deceptive influence of the false signs and wonders movement causes many to fail to practice Biblical discernment, while those that make a stand against it are labelled ‘legalists’ or ‘fundies’.

God Bless & keep up the good fight.

In Christ.

Drew (Andrew) Caswell

By Drew Caswell on Jun 11, 2008

Dear Philip:

I went to Lakeland…I witnessed people healed of diseases such as cancer, eyesight problems, being wheelchair bound etc.

I was healed of dangerously high blood pressure, which amazed my doctor

People have been delivered of demonic possession and oppression.

Like many others who testify, I came away with renewed love for Jesus, commitment to His kingdom, and cleanliness (contrary to the arm-chair critics who have not been there or watched the meetings except for clips taken out of context - the essence of the meetings is to glorify God as well as holiness.)

People have repented and been brought into a relationship with God through Christ.

Backsliders have returned to following Christ

Yet you claim all this to be the work of Satan.

Your accusation is reminiscent of the same which was brought against Jesus by the Pharisees in Matthew 12:24 - but Jesus’ response in vs. 25-32 gives cause for caution.

My brother you need to repent of slander

Steve
****************

STEVE:

Thanks for your warning.

If you can show me anywhere in the Bible where Jesus, whom I know, would tell any man to go off and get tattooed when the Bible clearly states that we as God’s people must not put “marks” on our bodies (Lev. 19:28) and that our bodies do not belong to us but are temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:19). If you can show me anywhere in the Bible where the Jesus whom I know, would endorse a man kicking a woman with his “bikie boot” to heal her or “banging a woman’s crippled feet up and down on the platform” and then “kicking her in the face” to heal her (Todd Bentley claims these things) — then Steve I will give further thought to your charge against me and consideration to what you say I should do. Until then I will prefer to follow the Word of God than any man’s ideas or experiences.

Please, Steve, don’t forget that the Bible tells us that Antichrist will perform “miracles”. Presumably these will include miracles of healing. No, I don’t think Todd Bentley is the Antichrist. He’s too simple and stupid to be. However I do think he operates under the spirit of Antichrist and should be rejected. I will continue to warn people against following him, though, frankly, I cannot grasp how any intelligent Christian would be taken in by him or by what is happening at Lakeland, Florida.

Steve you have accused me of slander and have by implication linked me with the Pharisees who spoke against Jesus, which I have NOT done. This is serious. I have spoken against Todd Bentley and against the so called Florida Healing Revival which is an entirely different thing.

In my view Steve, you are deceived.

Sincerely and with concern,

Philip L. POWELL.
http://www.cwmf.info
http://www.cwmfellowship.org
http://www.christian-witness.org

By philip on Jun 12, 2008

Dear Philip

You have transferred our correspondence to your blog without my permission - I therefore ask that you please also transfer this response to your blog.

If you are going to use Lev 19:28 as a judgement against Bentley because he has tattoos - then you are also obliged to wear long hair at the sides of your head, wear a bushy beard, and refrain from eating pork.

Bentley does sometimes (very seldom) use unusual methods (but greatly exaggerated and embellished by critics), as he feels the Lord directs, when praying for healing - but then so did Jesus (spitting, mud in eyes), and so did other evangelists such as Smith Wigglesworth. The point is that the people they pray for, do not get up hurt - but healed, so judge by the fruit.

You seem to have more faith in what the anti-Christ can do than God.

When John the Baptist asked from prison, if Jesus really was the Messiah - Jesus sent a message back saying “the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.” These things are happening in Lakeland in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ - not Satan.

No matter what you think of Bentley - calling someone who is made in the image of God “simple and stupid” completely flies in the face of scripture, godliness, and Christ-likeness. Todd may be uneducated (he did not have the privileged upbringing that perhaps you or I had) but stupid he is not. Even if he was “simple and stupid” this does not disqualify him from being used by the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am a Spirit filled, born again Christian and having been at Lakeland, (even though I did not agree with everything that was said and done) had absolutely no cause to believe that Bentley operates under the spirit of anti-Christ - but indeed the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Like the Pharisees - you are accusing someone of casting out demons by the power of Satan - Jesus made it clear in the pericope in question that this is not possible. This is slander which also goes against the laws of Leviticus.

Steve

By Steve on Jun 12, 2008

Dear Philip,

I live in the UK.

It’s your call whether you transfer our correspondence to your blog - if you do, I ask that you publish it in its entirety and not selective snippets. I can see why you would prefer not to have it published that you called someone “simple and stupid.”

Your negative references to Bentley’s past, intelligence, and appearance - I find absolutely astounding for a Christian and a pastor - surely you have read that God does not judge by outward appearances? Surely you know how David was called a man after God’s own heart even though he was a liar, a murderer, and an adulterer?

If you had watched Tuesday night’s broadcast in the spirit of the Bereans (12/06/08 - which was aired here in the UK last night) instead of selective snippets on U tube - you would have seen how the main theme was holy living and getting one’s life right with God. It is not about the miracles but about a hunger for God and His presence. People do not go there to worship Satan, but God. Jesus is the focus of attention.

There is no doubt in my mind that you would have been shocked at some of the ways Jesus ministered to people if you had lived at that time in Jerusalem. (Again, this is not normative.)

Bentley’s team are very careful to sift the testimonies of every healing before someone gets up on the platform to testify. They also do everything they can to verify the most dramatic healings that have been reported from around the world. For instance, they recently retracted one raising from the dead after they found that it was a hoax. I was also sceptical when first hearing of the outpouring but have witnessed a spirit of integrity, openness, and honesty throughout.

I am not interested in glittering gold - but reality. I am quite sure you will find fault in every camp if you look for it - if they found fault with Jesus [who was perfect] then much fault can be found with those who are far from perfect (like us all) such as Todd Bentley and John Arnott. (As for John Arnott I have yet to meet such a humble, gentle, and loving man - but I’m sure he has many faults that a faultfinder could write about.)

Yours in Him

Steve

By Steve on Jun 12, 2008

Dear Philip, I too have been watching what’s been going on in Florida with much sadness and concern. Our own church has been through milder, Toronto-style “experiences”; and also purpose-driven, etc, which others and myself had warned against.
Praise God, this has not continued but the Toronto effect persists and is increasingly encouraged with false prophecy, shaking etc.
It is with much sorrow I feel my time in my beloved church which I have been a part of for 24 years is coming to an end.
May God bless you as you continue to warn and encourage.
Karen

By Karen on Jun 12, 2008

STEVE:

You told me that your surname is Talbot and that you are a pastor. I would have thought that as a pastor you would be more careful when you “attack” others, in this case me.

I did not criticize Todd Bentley’s tattoos per se. What I criticized was the fact that he claimed that Jesus told him to get tattooed. Mr Bentley is obviously hearing voices which should be a concern to any man, especially to a pastor who leads people. He’s also seeing apparitions. There is no basis in the Bible for the idea of “female” angels. Female angels are part of the occult and those who think they see them are deceived.

Are you associated with the AoG-UK? If so you should read my article which is also published on this blog and is entitled THE UK ASSEMBLIES OF GOD - A Different Movement with the same Name. There are many false stories that circulate regarding the late Smith Wigglesworth whom I never met, but my late father and my two paternal uncles [all of whom were AoG pastors] did know him. The late David Powell [veteran pastor of the Rotherham Pentecostal Church and former principal of Mattersey Bible College (AoG)] worked very closely with Smith Wigglesworth. He told me many stories none of which were bizarre, and he like myself believed that people try to build their own practice and fame on false stories told about legends like Smith Wigglesworth. One such person is Roberts Liardon in his book “God’s Generals”. Liardon was adjudged guilty of homosexuality with his youth pastor. Yet today’s anaemic “church” looks the other way crying “forgive” when the Bible says such a person should never again be in “leadership”. To justify their stance they appeal to such examples as King David in the Old Testament as you have done and overlook the clear command of the New Testament, which is the rule for Christian Church ministry. By the way, King David is never called a murderer or adjudged guilty of murder anywhere in the Bible. Yours is a humanistic conclusion based upon a false premise and overlooks the intrigues and raw facts of war and the rights of kings.

Everything the Lord Jesus did was with purpose and mostly to illustrate divine truth e.g. the healing of the blind man to which you refer. He acted as the creator, took dust mixed it with spittle from His mouth, illustration the Divine Word, told the blind man to go wash in Siloam, which means “sent”, thus illustrating the involvement of the Holy Spirit in the process of bringing light to a darkened soul. It’s a marvellous message about the process of salvation. For you to link such acts with a man “kicking” women is close to blasphemy. As a pastor you should know better than that, but sadly the basic teaching of scripture with its wide and rich content has been neglected for “imagined” or “real” experiences by such denominations as AoG. I think Steve you may have been made for better things.

You have told me at least twice that you watch Todd Bentley to the small hours of the morning. This is the sort of stuff that creates brain washing. I would turn away from that if I were you. You are without excuse. We all have the example of Toronto and the deception of men like John Arnott, which certainly did produce fruit - families and Churches divided and in some cases totally broken. There was no revival. Remember Steve fruit is never immediate. It takes a long time — usually years — before the fruit shows. The fruit of Toronto, Pensacola etc has been reaped. The true fruit of this so-called Florida Healing Revival has yet to emerge and it will be worse than Toronto and Pensacola. The leaders who were deceived by the first — many of them Assemblies of God “leaders” — should repent of their lack of discernment in order to remove the “plague” of what is happening at Florida and fast spreading through the “church” in UK and elsewhere.

As watchmen we have sounded the trumpet. Men like you will have to decide where you stand and what you are going to do about it.

Sincerely and with love in JESUS,

Philip L. POWELL
http://www.cwmfellowship.org
http://www.christian-witness.org

By philip on Jun 12, 2008

Dear Philip

There is stuff throughout your various publications attacking and faultfinding almost everything which moves in the body of Christ. I point out that this is slander – and you claim that I am attacking you….huh??

Just because the bible does not mention female angels – does not mean there are none. There are many more angels than the bible specifically mentions just as much as there are many more people than the bible specifically mentions. Is there anywhere in the bible that says that if one does see a female angel or a vision then he is deceived? To the contrary – the bible has many accounts of people seeing visions as well as angels with names.

I do have some UK-AOG connection and friends – but I am not part of that denomination. Yes, I did read your article written against the UK-AOG, and frankly found it to be ridiculous as well as slanderous.

I studied Church History up to Masters level and still study as well as lecture the subject. I have read a number of books regarding Smith Wigglesworth, and did an essay including him which required extensive research. He did indeed have some strange practices when praying for healing – and Bentley does remind me of his ministry.

The church and network that Liardon is associated with did not ‘look the other way’ as you assert – he was put under discipline, and has repented of his sin. Where does the bible show that “such a person should never again be in leadership”? Both homosexuality and slander are sins – so….

As for your statement that my conclusion about David is humanistic - I don’t think so. He clearly broke the Jewish law by sleeping with another man’s wife, lied to her husband, and had him killed. If this was all OK because he was King as you assert, then he would not have been confronted by the prophet Nathan, and punished. Look at the background of people God used in the New Testament. If God is only going to use people with a nice clean past – whom will He use? Todd Bentley may not fit in your box – but God’s ways are different….

Regarding why Jesus healed the blind man in question – that is your opinion.. The point is - it was unusual, and ‘out the box’. Also look at all the other strange stuff that happened with people throughout the Old and New Testaments. You only seem to accept strange things that God did in the past – but anything strange today is met with suspicion. This makes no sense. Signs and wonders have always been around when God moved amongst His people. If a sign does not make you wonder – then it is not a wonder.

I don’t recall telling you I watch Bentley into the early hours - for the program usually comes on TV at about 7:30 and ends at 11pm!

I think you and others are in danger of accusing Jesus of being the anti-Christ if He does return in our time. Things never happen according to our ideal expectations – this was why the Pharisees missed their visitation.

In Him
Steve

By Anonymous on Jun 13, 2008

NO STEVE:

The Pharisees and other religious leaders missed their “visitation” because they did not know and obey the Scriptures and because they did not know and experience the power of God cf. Matthew 22: 29. You also err by twisting what Jesus actually said, just as in places you twist what I actually said for your own ends. You have done it with my comments about King David, choosing to ignore what I actually said, which you cannot gainsay and throwing in a line which I did not say and do not affirm.

Ah, well you’re not the first to do such things. I have not and do not object to Todd Bentley’s antics because they are unusual. I object to them because they are based on violence and plain false-hood. No man or WOMAN would be healed because he or anyone else exercised violence on them. This is an absurd and false claim. If it happened, which I am sure it didn’t, it should be verified medically and properly documented.

As to Roberts Liardon’s position as a leader have you not read Paul’s instructions regarding the standard for leaders (bishops, elders) in 1 Timothy chapter 3? Verse 7 is particularly pertinent - “Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Several times you have wrongly accused me of “slander” and in so doing you have actually slandered me. Seeing you think yourself so great and wise, “I studied Church history up to Masters level and still study as well as lecture the subject” it’s a pity you don’t consult a dictionary before you “attack” others, in this case me. SLANDER = “a malicious, false, and injurious statement spoken against a person.” This I have not done to anyone, but you have done it to me.

Ah well - such is life.

Thankfully our actions since 1994 seem to be awakening those who are elect unto salvation and with that we are satisfied. Not all will receive it. Those who do not love the TRUTH will believe “the lie”:

2Th 2:9-12 “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

I rest my case.

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Philip L. POWELL.
http://www.christian-witness.org/blog
http://www.cwmfellowship.org
http://www.christian-witness.org

By philip on Jun 13, 2008

Hi Philip
I have completed an article on the Florida outpouring, it is on the www.prophecynews.co.uk website. If you click on Bentley’s face, it will take you to it. Might be better if you publish that in your magazine rather than the other, as the first one wasn’t really completed. That’s if you want to. Thanks!
God bless,
Chris Perver - UK

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 13, 2008

Editorial Note:
Following our dispatch headed “Second Attempt-URGENT MATTERS FOR YOUR ACTION OR NOTATION and PRAYER”, in which we adjudged the Florida Healing Revival as satanic and referred to the present drive by Danny Nalliah and Catch the Fire as totally DECEIVED we received the following courteous yet obviously misled statement from the office of Catch the Fire. Please see my further Editorial Note below. You be the judge:

“God bless you Philip, your family, and Christian Witness Ministries! Thank for your comments which are of course important to you as us too!

However, we believe in the Heaven-sent global outpouring of the Holy Spirit’s revival, awakening, and radical reformation in Florida and around the world! Truly, Todd Bentley is an anointed and appointed man of God that the Spirit of the Lord has raised up to lead this Nameless and Faceless Revival of the Supernatural Fire, Power, Glory, Presence and Love of Jesus Christ, Almighty Savior, Deliverer, Healer, Baptizer of the Holy Ghost and Fire, LORD of lords and soon coming King of kings!!!

Catch the Fire Ministries is an interdenominational prayer ministry that unites Bible-believing God-fearing Christians from many churches and denominations to pray for Australia’s, Israel’s and all the Nation’s spiritual revival, transformation, and the Kingdom of God to reign on Earth as it is in Heaven!

We certainly believe in a global apostasy of many professing Christians, the rapture of the expectant Bride of Christ, a horrific tribulation, and the deceiving world-wide rule of a satanic anti-Christ spirit and the evil person of the Anti-Christ, which is definitely not Todd Bentley, nor the Elijah List, nor the Kansas City Prophetic Movement, nor the Pensacola Revival, nor the Toronto Blessing, nor God T.V. with Rory & Wendy Alec whom I recently met personally in Jerusalem, Israel!

As Great Commission focused (Matthew 28:18-20) prayer and evangelistic ministries, we at Catch the Fire Ministries and the above mentioned Holy Spirit anointed ministries are focusing our efforts on preaching the Glorious Gospel of the Kingdom of God (Matthew 24:14) that is being proclaimed in all the earth as a testimony to every nation of the Lord Jesus Christ’s sacrificial death, triumphant resurrection, heavenly ascension, and soon return to rule and reign as the King of kings and LORD of lords from Jerusalem, Israel across the nations of the world! (Revelation 11:15)

May the Holy Spirit of Truth lead you in His eschatological knowledge, wisdom, discernment, understanding, and revelation of the Eternal Word of God!

Rising Up Australia and the Nations as His Kingdom Comes,

Jason Golden
Catch the Fire Ministries
PO Box 7427
Dandenong VIC 3175 Australia
Tel (613) 9794 8211
Fax (613) 9794 9311
www.catchthefire.com.au

EDITORIAL NOTE
Do you not think that it defies logic and all reason that on the one hand the writer can identify the leader of the Pensacola Healing Revival as being Todd Bentley and yet claim that it is a “Nameless and Faceless Revival of the Supernatural Fire, Power, Glory, Presence and Love of Jesus Christ”? Meanwhile Danny Nalliah and Catch the Fire is promoting this false “fire” in various places and simply repeating what happened with Toronto and Pensacola etc. On the one hand they claim it as a sovereign movement of God and on the other they promote it with all their energy and zeal. Can you see the anomaly?

Philip L. POWELL
http://www.christian-witness.org/blog
http://www.cwmfellowship.org
http://www.christian-witness.org

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 13, 2008

EDITORIAL NOTE:
The following came as a result of my latest broadcast email entitled “URGENT MATTERS FOR YOUR ACTION OR NOTATION and PRAYER”, which linked to our CWM “blog” entitled “SO THE PLAGUE WAS STAYED… (Num 25:8) SO THE LORD WAS ENTREATED… AND THE PLAGUE WAS STAYED … (2 Sam 24:25)”, which in turn links to my long article entitled “THE UK ASSEMBLIES OF GOD - A DIFFERENT MOVEMENT WITH THE SAME NAME” to which this email refers. In my response to David Cooper I suggested that we should post his email on our blog to which he agreed. He currently lives in Auckland and would like to meet Christians of like precious faith and similar concerns. His email address is cooper777@xnet.co.nz. I have responded additionally below:
*************
Dear Brother,

You don’t know me but I can relate to your recent PDF file regarding the AOG etc. I was involved with the AOG in Australia for over twenty years and was a pastor as well. I am familiar with the many names you mentioned and have met many of these people. I agree with your stand on these matters and I appreciate your stand on the “Todd Bentley” meetings. I am on the verge of leaving my church because of the whole-hearted acceptance of Todd Bentley without any testing the Spirit or the fruit of his ministry. Apart from the Blatant False teaching, people are sucked into this because of the “manifestations” they are seeing, and yet they don’t read their Bibles or seek the Lord about it.

I am presently living in Auckland NZ with my wife and children. I am not pastoring at all and I believe I should focus on making disciples of Jesus and preaching the gospel to the people of NZ , OUTSIDE the Churches. Where are the pentecostal churches heading? Is it coming to the stage where to be a true follower of Jesus we have to stay away from these denominations? In all honesty, I find it really hard to make myself vulnerable and trust any pastor because of the long history of disappointments I have experienced.

I am not without guilt myself! I have been led astray from the truth by focusing too much in a certain area and not being focused on what the Lord has called me to. It seems to me that the focus has been too much on the POWER and MONEY rather than on LOVE and SERVANTHOOD. THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE MINISTRY! We all need it but who can we look up to and trust and respect?

Can you please recommend any good churches in Auckland that you know the pastor is a man of God and has pure motives as well as good fruit? I pray for these guys and I realize I am no better in many ways but there is A CRISIS in Christianity and many of us are so disillusioned with Churches in general.

Thanks for your Godly Voice in a time of much deception.

David Cooper - cooper777@xnet.co.nz
***********
Dear David:

Thank you for agreeing to my first suggestion about posting your email on our blog. I have included your email address above so people in the Auckland region and elsewhere in NZ can contact you. I will try to alert people, who may be interested in networking, to this blog. Let’s see what the Lord does as a result.

Personally, I have found that the only reliable group of churches in NZ that I could recommend in any way are the Open Brethren, who will readily acknowledge that they too have their problems. Some Calvary Chapels are also good and there are independent churches dotted around the country which may be good. Usually these have some sort of relationship with the Open Brethren, either by way of background or in some on-going relationship.

There are two extremes. On the one side you have those who teach “cessationism”, which is clearly contrary to the Bible and against the nature and character of God, who is immutable i.e. unchanging. The cessationist position is biblically and historically untenable. On the other hand you have “extreme Pentecostalism” or more correctly described as “Charismania”, which gave rise to the absurd teachings and practices of Toronto and Pensacola, which in turn provided the basis for the demonic Florida Healing so-called revival. We need to encourage people to get away from all of this nonsense which in essence is “antichrist” cf. 1 John 2: 18.

We also need to encourage people to inter-relate in fellowship, hence my other suggestion to you about trying to get to our CWM Conference/Camp – September 21 to 27 on the Tweed Heads Gold Coast. It is a lovely resort situated in a marvellous location with a wonderful theme – “Living Life in Conformity with the New Covenant.” Already there are around 100 booked in from a number of countries and from around Australia. There is a large contingent of people from New Zealand. We have a panel of six or more speakers from UK, USA and Australia.

This type of gathering of the faithful remnant who have not denied the faith is increasingly important.

Malachi 3:16-18 “Then they that feared the LORD spoke often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His name. And they shall be mine, says the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spares his own son that serves him. Then shall you return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serves God and him that serves Him not.”

God bless you. Remember God always retains a faithful remnant who have not bowed to Baal.

Sincerely and with love in the LORD,

Philip L. POWELL

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 14, 2008

No Philip

I have neither twisted your words nor Christ’s. It is plain to see what you wrote. I’m sorry you don’t like my response – but my response is my response.

The Pharisees (along with many of the other Jewish sects of the Second Temple period) were expecting the Messiah – however Jesus of Nazareth did not come in the package that they were expecting, so most rejected Him as the promised Messiah. We need to learn from history - it is quite possible that those who have are now expecting Him, but have an idealised eschatology will again reject Him when He comes. May this not be. Many people also have an idealised notion of revival or a move of God, and so reject anything that does not fit this ideal.

Bentley has people working with him whose task it is to verify healings being reported to them. If you actually watched the events at Lakeland you would notice that people claiming to be healed are constantly asked to return to their doctors for verification. If you have any doubts, they would welcome your enquiry and do all they can to provide you with the evidence, including any medical reports – you would then have enough information to do your own research and verification. This would be what the Bereans would have done. To claim that there is no medical evidence that people are healed when you will not even look at the evidence – is slander.

With regards to Liardon and 2Th 2:9-12 - that is applicable to people who continue in their sin – not to a leader who has repented of his sin and gone through the appropriate counselling and restoration. If it is applied as you suggest – then no one can be a leader – including the Apostle Paul (see 1Tim.1:15; Rom 3:23; John 8:7; 1 John 1:8)

Regarding your statement on slander: I have not publicised any negative gossip about you on websites, newsletters, or other publications. This was supposed to be private correspondence between you and I, which came about as a result of an email you sent me containing information I firmly believe to be slanderous, malicious gossip, and the bearing of false witness. I do have a right to protest as a reader – or do you believe that no one should challenge the allegations you bring against many of your brothers and sisters in Christ?

I hope that you repent of slander, malicious gossip, and the bearing of false witness.

Steve

By Steve on Jun 14, 2008

STEVE:

You clearly are incapable of “rightly dividing the scriptures” and you do twist words - both mine and those of the Lord Jesus. Scripture makes clear distinctions between pre-conversion and post conversion activity. Paul did not sin as a Christian to the point where he could not be a leader. Roberts Liardon did. You fail to make a distinction where the Bible clearly makes a difference, so you rationalise on a false premise. I pity those whom you lead and to whom you lecture as they are in a position of being misled.

The scripture which I used in reference to Roberts Liardon was not 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, but 1 Timothy chapter 3. Read what I wrote. You can’t even get something as simple as that right.

The Bereans never asked for medical certificates etc as you falsely imply. They simply searched the Scriptures daily to ensure that what they were taught, albeit by Paul the apostle, was true. If Bentley and his followers want to claim healings they should produce the verification before they make the claims. You have the cart before the horse. You accepted the testimony and then tell me that if I dispute it I have a responsibility to some how produce the evidence. This is absurd.

You have maligned and slandered me yet you call me to repent for something I have not done and that exists ONLY in your own imagination. You have stated false things about me, which is NOT what I have done about those whom I have named, including those in my document about AoG-UK. Not one of those named has disputed what I wrote, which I sent to all of them before I made it public.

Say what you will. I really have no more to say to you on the matter. Have you read what others have said on this blog?

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Philip L. POWELL

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 14, 2008

Philip

Yes, I indeed made an error by copying and pasting the wrong scripture from your letter – I intended to quote 1 Tim 3:1-7. I do apologise. Do you know of any scripture that shows I sinned by doing that …and thus deserved the kind of reaction that you showed towards such a simple mistake?

Sin is sin - it means ‘missing the mark’ whether you miss the target by an inch or a mile you are still missing the target – and Paul tells us that we all fall far short of the target. If you believe that a repentant sinner cannot be restored to ministry – then I pity the people who are under your care and with whom you associate. This is simply not biblical or Godly.

Yes I have read some of the other comments on your blog. Sadly, some really show a sense of hate and bitterness – then sign off with something like ‘In sincere Christian love’. Signing off with something like that does not alter any hateful attitude in a post.

I know the Bereans did not check for medical records – you are missing the point. I am talking about their honest checking to see if something is true, which in their case was checking the scriptures to see if Paul’s teaching that Jesus is the promised Messiah is true. But notice that they first listened to Paul with open hearts, instead of suspicious minds like those in the Thessalonian synagogue who rejected him outright without even checking to see if what he said was true.

The reason why those whom you accuse have not responded is that they have before suffered much at your false accusations, misconceptions, and misrepresentations (perhaps that makes you feel proud – but it takes no skill or anointing to break down) and have realised that it is a waste of time to try and reason with Heresy Hunters. They are obviously not as naive as I am.

You have caused much hurt in the body of Christ Philip – it is nothing to be proud of.

In Him

Steve

By Steve on Jun 14, 2008

STEVE:

Really my friend, you need to examine yourself, your attitude and your words. In the simple mistake that you made, and have now, as a result of my pointing it out to you, acknowledged, I never once accused you explicitly or implicitly of sin. I simply pointed out your carelessness and now I readily accept your apology.

I suggest that you step back, or off your high pedestal (or high horse if you prefer) and start to think.

In another private email in your response to a News item by Moriel in their BE ALERT you in effect accuse the writers of the article of scandal, which is what you accused me of also. I have already pointed out to you that scandal involves false and malicious statement. The Moriel news item presents a recording of what Todd Bentley says himself and about himself. This man is doing a pretty good job himself to show that he is not ministering in the spirit of Christ. Just watch the You-tubes for yourself. No body needs to slander him to show that he is false. He’s doing a pretty good job, himself. The thing that troubles me and that I am trying to get across to you and to others is that anyone should see through this and turn away from such practice and teaching.

You keep shooting yourself in the foot. I think you would be well advised to take a break. Pray and think deeply about it all. Above everything consult the Scriptures.

Have you ever seen clear evidence that anyone has been healed permanently at these meetings? If the honest answer is “Yes”, then ask by whose power are these healings taking place in view of the many warnings in Scripture about false signs and wonders and false prophets and teachers.

I leave it with you and will respond separately to your latest private email and seeing you effectively accuse Moriel and Be Alert and Jacki Alnor of slander, I will copy them in so they can take the matter up with you if they wish.

My intention is NOT to hurt anyone. My intention is to stand for the TRUTH and to expose error and wrong practice in the so called Church.

God bless you Steve. I suggest that we leave the matter there.

Yours sincerely in Christ’s service,

Philip L. POWELL

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 14, 2008

Philip

With regards to the newsletter in question - a copy and paste of my exact response was the short sentence: If you cannot see that the newsletter below is slanderous in tone, then you are truly blind. I stand by that statement.

I have watched the events in Lakeland and on TV, enough to know that your allegations are false.

What do you mean by permanent? It is too soon to tell whether the healings are ‘permanent.’ In answer to your question “by whose power are these healings taking place in view of the many warnings in Scripture about false signs and wonders and false prophets and teachers?” As they are performed in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the power of the Holy Spirit, and to the glory of God the Father – then they are done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the power of the Holy Spirit to the glory of God the Father.
You can’t have a counterfeit £3 note because a real £3 note does not exist - so if the miracles in Lakeland are the counterfeit – then where and what is the real?
False allegations and malicious gossip is always hurtful.
In Him
Steve

By Steve on Jun 14, 2008

STEVE:

Genuine miracles are recorded in Scripture, which is the yard stick. There are also genuine miracles and “revivals” documented throughout Church history of which you claim to have some knowledge seeing you are an accomplished Master’s degreed lecturer. So these $6 note counterfeits of Todd Bentley can very easily be shown for what they are–counterfeit, false workings of a false “spirit.”

False miracles will be performed in the name of Jesus Christ:

Matthew 7:21-23: “Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does [is doing] the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name have done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.”

Acts 19:13-16 “Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them who had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

The Vatican have professional exorcists who apparently achieve success and they do it in the Name of Jesus as does a Pentecostal con-man who claims great things and makes much money by his trade. Right now I cannot recall his name. All of this is done in the name of Jesus. That is where discernment comes in and it’s very clear to me that you lack it, Steve.

We all agree with you that scandal and malicious gossip are wrong. For this reason we do not engage in it. I suggest that you stop scandalising us. If you don’t you will be called to account.

God bless you, Steve.

Sincerely yours in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Philip L. POWELL.

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 14, 2008

Philip

Yes, the bible is the yardstick for miracles, and these are happening in Lakeland.

Some may refer to Lakeland as a revival (Christians are certainly being revived) - but I and others do not refer to it as such – but an outpouring. Bentley has also said that this is not a revival, as it is too early to refer to it as such. I believe it can only be referred to as a revival when it goes outside of the Church and reaches those who do not have a relationship with God through Christ.

However, I have indeed studied historical revivals – and have observed that all the bodily manifestations that happened during revivals from Wesley to Azusa Street – are happening in Lakeland.

You are contradicting yourself about the miracles. You claim that the healings are not real, but at the same time you claim that the healings are done by demonic spirits – both scenarios cannot be true at the same time.

The “seven sons of one Sceva,” were beaten up by demons when they tried to drive them out in the name of Jesus. Have you seen Bentley and others at Lakeland running out beaten and naked?

If you believe that malicious gossip and slander are wrong - then you really should stop doing it.

Steve

By steve on Jun 14, 2008

No STEVE - the so called “miracles” at Florida fail the biblical test. They are occult in nature and therefore not “genuine” in the biblical sense. My words are NOT contradictory as you allege. A miracle may take place but not be genuine in the true Bible sense which presents God as the source of all “genuine” miracles.

Those who will be judged by Christ as those whom He never knew purport to do their miracles in the Name of Jesus and in the power of the Holy Spirit, when clearly they are motivated by a false spirit seeing our Lord says that He never knew them. I notice that you have conveniently ignored that point.

I have seen your interaction with Jackie Alnor and am now more than happy to make no further comment. I’m happy for you to have the last word if you wish, although it will be the Lord who actually has the last word.

You have scandalised me by wrongly accusing me of scandal, which I am definitely not guilty of, but I hold no grudge.

Sincerely yours in CHRIST,

Philip L. POWELL.

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 15, 2008

CLOSURE - With the following comment we are calling a halt to the interaction of Steve Talbot of UK with Philip Powell of OZ in respect of this matter. In our opinion enough has been said by both. Others may comment as they wish.

While we do recognise the forgiving and cleansing power of the blood of the Lord Jesus for all sins committed prior to the “new birth” that are truly repented of it is a matter of concern to us in the Watchmen Ministries that Todd Bentley has been on damage control - having his legal people remove damaging information on the web and YouTube. The Wikipedia entry on Todd was adjusted to remove damaging information about his admitted paedophilia crime for which he served a prison sentence.

You can still go into google and get the Wikipedia unedited version by hitting “cache”. We support the cautionary statement recorded there that was made by Lieutenant Jeff Johnston, a Salvation Army pastor in Port Alberni, B.C., who used to work in Bentley’s hometown:

“There’s absolutely no way that I would allow my own kids to come within a million miles of anyone who had been involved in a youth sexual assault,” he says.

Lieut. Johnston notes a church group tried to bring Bentley to Gibsons for a series of meetings in 1997, but the gatherings were called off after Lieut. Johnston and other pastors threatened not to allow their youth groups to attend.

“It’s one thing to be forgiving, it’s another thing to be stupid,” Lieut. Johnston says. “If you, as a pastor, had someone in your church ministry who had been involved in these things and they ever re-offended, the fact that you knew and didn’t disclose it to parents, [and] take every precaution, would be a huge liability issue.”

Apart from this sinister aspect to the present so called “revival” or “outpouring”, which it isn’t, we at CWM deny that the bizarre occurrences now and with the “Toronto” and “Pensacola” movements would have been endorsed by previous revivalists. Leaders like John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards, and Evan Roberts et al, like ourselves, condemned any such “manifestation” as demonic. Unlike John Arnott, Rodney Howard-Browne and Todd Bentley they condemned these things. They did not promote them - refer to: http://www.christian-witness.org/archives/van2000/revival00.html

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 15, 2008

Thank you Philip for your heartfelt comments!

Nevertheless, we’re still praying with the loving heart of the Heavenly Father for you, your family, and your ministry to prayerfully seek the soon coming King of kings and Lord of lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, through His Anointed Word (Bible) of supernatural knowledge, wisdom, revelation and truth (not your or other men’s religious interpretation) to baptize you in the Holy Spirit and Fire! (Matthew 3:11)

‘It’s not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ says the Lord God Almighty! (Zechariah 4:6)

‘He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (Matthew 12:30-32)

May you truly hear Philip and Christian Witness Ministries what the Holy Spirit is saying, through the Living Word (Bible), to His Church in these last days before His Return in Power and Glory!

In the Love of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit,

Jason Golden

Catch the Fire Ministries
PO Box 7427
Dandenong VIC 3175 Australia
Tel (613) 9794 8211
Fax (613) 9794 9311
www.catchthefire.com.au

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 16, 2008

Thank you Jason and Danny for saying you are praying for us. We too are praying for you that your eyes will be opened to the deception that you are into and promoting. This is just Toronto and Pensacola all over again, but at a lower level of demonic activity and deception. The matter is serious–VERY SERIOUS.

I agree with all the Bible passages that you have quoted and/or alluded to. However it is clear that you do not agree with Zechariah 4: 6 which you quote. If it’s “not by might or power” then why are you doing all in your power and might to spread this false thing?

I have attached to my personal response to you an excellent article which shows what is actually going on in Florida through Todd Bentley who is not a true servant of the Lord and is acting irresponsibly. You can read it here - http://www.olivetreeviews.org/

Also read the above blog “CLOSURE” about his previous connections as a satanist and a violent abuser of a child for which he served a prison sentence. We agree that the blood of Jesus Christ does cleanse from all sin that is confessed and repented of. However we suggest caution at the very least in respect of a man of this moral background especially when he tells the world that he kicked a woman in the leg and in the face and that he banged another lady’s legs up and down on the platform.

You are promoting someone and something that is extremely dangerous. You will ultimately be held responsible by the Lord for your conduct and your lack of discernment.

In Christ,

Philip L. POWELL

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 16, 2008

Hi I rarely ever look at this blog but came to it today through a link, though I know Philip as my former pastor. I couldn’t help but notice your comments Jason and it brings to mind a statement made by Oswald Chambers where he uses the term “being blind to your blindness”.

Jason the Holy Spirit is first holy, second He is the Spirit of Truth, and thirdly He always expresses a spirit of humility. From what I have seen of all these so called revivals none of these are in evidence.

I am sorry Jason but you are horribly deceived.

It betrays belief that you could attribute such manifestations to a holy God.

May the living God of Israel open your eyes and even deliver you from a religious spirit (evident in your reply) before it is too late.

I too was blind but now I see.

Regards and concern.

By His grace

Robert

By Robert Withall on Jun 17, 2008

Thank you for the warnings about Todd Bentley. He was brought to my attention a couple of weeks ago and I have just been researching him more to warn the girls in my cell group about it….

Do you know if the AOG church in Australia believe in, rejoice in and promote this ‘revival’. I’d be interested to know what they think of all this!!

Thanks,
Carla

ANSWER FROM PHILIP POWELL
Danny Nalliah quoted in my latest email despatch is an AoG pastor and his Catch the Fire Church is an Assemblies of God in Australia Church. Clearly he is supportive of the Pensacola Healing Revival. We know of another AoG Church in Victoria near or in a town called Echuca where they are promoting the Florida nonsense. It is taking the same form and pattern as the false Toronto and Pensacola revivals, the fruit of which was division of families and churches. This will have the same effect but worse. All are demonic deceptions but this one is at a lower level. It involves violence which began to show itself in the Toronto movement. The late David Cartledge, who embraced and then promoted “Toronto”, effectively described the “spirit” that controlled him as a compulsive force that threw him against the platform as he was preaching and transfixed him on the spot as he was praying for people. He had received a counterfeit “spirit” (a demon) who has now expressed itself in far greater violence in and through Todd Bentley. It is part and parcel of the end time deception. We cannot tell you what is the official policy of AoG in Australia regarding Florida. It is unlikely they will tell us, but the future will tell. Certainly they supported the former deceptions and should now acknowledge their mistake and publicly repent.

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 23, 2008

Dear Philip

If that power which overtook David Cartledge is a demonic counterfeit spirit, then what is the power which overtook people as recorded in Gen. 32:24- 30; 1 Kings 8:10-11; Ps. 119:120; Jer. 4:19; 23:9; Ezek.1;28; 3:23-27; 33:21-22; 43:3; 44:4; Dan.10:7-16; Hab.3:16; Luke 1:5-23, 57-66; Acts 8:39 - 40; Acts 9:3-19; Acts 10;10; Acts 22:17; 2 Cor.5:15; and Rev. 1:17 ?

By Chris on Jun 25, 2008

The late David Cartledge’s (DC) testimony was that when he visited Toronto at first he was resistant to what was happening until his wife Marie told him that his problem was that he “lived in his head”. DC then said something to the effect, “Lord I don’t care what I do. I’ll walk on the ceiling if only I can get IT” (i.e. whatever was being dispensed at Toronoto.) Following that experience he mimicked others with their so called “Holy Ghost” train, which to my mind was blasphemous. He also claimed the experiences that I have alluded to earlier, viz. being thrown against the wall while preaching and transfixed on the spot at times when praying. He had imbibed a “compulsive” spirit. The Holy Spirit is not compulsive.

So CHRIS - how do I respond to your challenge regarding the verses you have quoted?

FIRSTLY I notice that they are mostly Old Testament (OT), of which we are told “the things that happened to them happened as examples [i.e. illustrations]” (1 Corinthians 10: 11). We are supposed to be “able ministers of the New Testament” (1 Corinthians 3: 6). Our doctrine and modus operandi MUST be based on the New Testament (NT). Nowhere in the NT do we discover anything like Toronto, Pensacola or the present outrage of the false “Florida Healing Revival.” Nor do these things occur throughout Church History except within false movements and/or as aberrations that true men of God, such as John Wesley opposed and warned against.

SECONDLY look carefully at the scriptures you have cited. My comments under each passage are as brief as possible:

GENESIS 32:24-30 -
Then Jacob was left alone; and a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day. (25) Now when He saw that He did not prevail against him, He touched the socket of his hip; and the socket of Jacob’s hip was out of joint as He wrestled with him. (26) And He said, “Let Me go, for the day breaks.” But he said, “I will not let You go unless You bless me!” (27) So He said to him, “What is your name?” He said, “Jacob.” (28) And He said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed.” (29) Then Jacob asked, saying, “Tell me Your name, I pray.” And He said, “Why is it that you ask about My name?” And He blessed him there. (30) And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”

In this incident there was nothing and no-one who “overtook” Jacob. God “overcame” him so that he was changed from what one man called “a running crook” to a “limping prince”. [By way of clarification IMO there is nothing in the historic record which suggests Jacob was a crook, but like us all he had flaws in his character which God had to deal with. This process is illustrated in the life of Jacob (an example) and it culminates in the wrestling match that occurred at Peniel.] This incident illustrates “conversion” and/or those great interventions of God in the sanctifying process and crises that occur in the lives of those who become godly. Following the experience Jacob did not act in a bizarre manner as do those who experience the false movements that we are discussing. The late David Cartledge acted in an alarmingly bizarre manner, which was the give-away sign of what he had opened himself up to. He said that his whole Pneumatology (branch of Theology concerned with the Holy Spirit) was changed as a result of what he received at Toronto. That also sounds alarm bells.

1 KINGS 8:10-11 -
And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the LORD, (11) So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.

There is no correlation between this scripture and what we are discussing. Many throughout history have been unable to “minister” on account of a sense of the glory and holiness of God. Neither those in the OT nor those throughout history acted in a bizarre manner. They were not thrown against walls or transfixed on the spot. They simply bowed in reverence and awe at who God is and what He was doing in their lives.

PSALM 119:120 -
My flesh trembles for fear of You, And I am afraid of Your judgments.

This verse reflects the Psalmist’s attitude of and approach to God. There is nothing bizarre about that.

JEREMIAH 4: 19 & 23: 9-
O my soul, my soul! I am pained in my very heart! My heart makes a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, Because you have heard, O my soul, The sound of the trumpet, The alarm of war.
My heart within me is broken Because of the prophets; All my bones shake. I am like a drunken man, And like a man whom wine has overcome, Because of the LORD, And because of His holy words.

Jeremiah was not “overtaken”. He remained totally sensible and in control. Otherwise how could he make such expressions? In the first incident he simply, by divine enabling, as a prophet, saw what was going to happen and felt and expressed his great concern. In the second he uses poetic language to emphasise his alarm at what was happening in society and how the “deceived” and “false” prophets were reacting. [Just like they are today.]

The EZEKIEL, DANIEL and HABAKKUK Passages -

I have read them all and fail to see a clear correlation between any of them and what we are discussing. There is no dispute that an appearance of the glory of God to the OT prophets caused a sense of awe and reverence which at times rendered them speechless and caused them to fall on their faces before a holy and great God. On other occasions when God revealed to the OT prophets that judgment was coming they bowed in contemplation of the awful consequences of war or the other pending judgment. I see NO link between these experiences and those of a man being thrown against a wall and or being transfixed on the spot by some compulsive spirit; OR of another man - Warwick Shenton (WS), chairman of the AoG-UK conference, lying prostrate on the platform for much of the Conference which he should have been leading. If he wanted to sleep he should have remained at home. There is no NT precedent for any of these things and if we admit them as acceptable then we are denying that Scripture ALONE is our guide for doctrine and practice.

SO WHAT OF THE NT SCRIPTURES THAT YOU CITE?

In the case of Zecharias (Luke chapter 1, which in the strictest sense is OT-based) what happened to him was a judgment not a blessing. Toronto was supposed to be a “blessing”. Of course we now know that it wasn’t. If God was involved at all it was only in the judgmental sense. (I think it was a judgment to show who is who in the Kingdom of God.) Zecharias was struck “dumb” and could not minister and did not attempt to until God opened his mouth. That is a far cry from what happened to DC and WS et al. You cannot justify the experiences on any biblical basis.

ACTS 8:19-40 -
Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. (40) But Philip was found at Azotus. And passing through, he preached in all the cities till he came to Caesarea.

Remember this was a literal, physical transportation, no matter how you explain it. It was NOT some mystical (ethereal) occurrence. There is NO correlation with what we are discussing regarding Cartledge and Shenton et al.

ACTS 9:3-19 -
As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. (4) Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” ….. (17) And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” (18) Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. (19) So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus.

This is the marvellous account of the conversion of Saul of Tarsus of which one skeptic suggested, “Paul had an epileptic fit.” To which the challenged preacher simply raised his hand to heaven and said, “Roll on thou blessed epilepsy”, the point being that it is the result (outcome) which always provides the best answer. Paul affected history through the preaching of the Gospel for good. This is not the consequences of the actions of a mad-man.

Read the record and it is clear that Saul was not rendered non compos mentis. Saul (later Paul) was in control of all of his mental faculties throughout. He was struck blind and then healed as a wonderful illustration of what happens at conversion. Again there is no association or correlation between this and what DC and WS et al claimed. Toronto resulted in divided homes, families and fellowships. We know of entire “churches” which ceased to exists after they embraced “Toronto” or “Pensacola”. Worse things will happen to those who take on board the so called “Florida Healing Revival.”

Also I see you do not include verse 20 which tells us the outcome of what happened to Paul — he preached Christ, not his experience. With Toronto etc there is no preaching of Christ but only of their bizarre experiences. Their catch cry is “Catch the Fire.”

ACTS 10: 10 -
Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance.

Consider the outcome. Peter and the others were establishing the modus operandi for the Gospel age. It was necessary for such events to convince them of the inclusiveness of the Gospel. We do not face the same scenario today. Apart from that the occurrences of Toronto etc bear absolutely no correlation to what occurred in the Acts of the Apostles. Peter acted in a totally sane manner and the Gospel was proclaimed and the Kingdom extended. That’s a far cry from the outcome of “Toronto” etc, where the Gospel is ridiculed as a result, not because of what the Gospel is (”foolishness to” those who do not believe), but on account of the stupidity of those who were effected by it crawling along like dogs and snakes, bellowing like bulls and crowing like cockrels.

ditto Acts 22: 17.

2 CORINTHIANS 5:15 -
and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

CHRIS - you may have chosen a wrong reference here. However I think it really answers the whole point. Those who follow the “Kansas City Prophets” or any of their “latter rain” off-shoots e.g. Toronto, Pensacola, or the Florida so-called Healing Revival are NOT living for Christ who died and rose again, but for their own self-interest and self-promotion.

REVELATION1:17 -
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

AMEN to that. When we truly see Christ we will do as John did. At Toronto whatever they received they did not die to themselves but they began to promote something that is entirely false and now we call for them all to repent just as did Mr Gawley who was part of the false movement, as NOW exposed by him in his testimony.

May Jesus Christ be Praised in all things. HE IS LORD OF ALL.

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 25, 2008

Dear Philip,
The point that I made from those references (which I think you may have missed) is that God does indeed come on people in a compulsive manner – for whatever reason - when they have an extraordinary encounter with Him. Each were different and also unprecedented. Where does the Bible (I believe in the full counsel of God, both Old and New testaments) teach that if one has ‘unusual’ bodily reactions that are not specifically listed in scripture, then this has to be demonically inspired? A conclusion such as this comes from eisegesis not exegesis.
I disagree with you about past revivals. Wesley’s journals show very clearly that similar manifestations occurred during the revival of his time as have occurred in Toronto, Pensacola, and Lakeland. So too does ‘Wind and Flame’ by Donald Gee (one of the founders of the UK AoG) – who received impartation from A.A Boddy’s meetings in Sunderland UK, who in turn had received impartation from visiting the Welsh revival, as well as visiting T.B Barrett’s meetings in Norway; who in turn had received impartation while visiting the USA, from others who had visited the revival in Azusa street. Again eye-witness accounts from all these meetings show similar manifestations to those in present moves of God. They also address similar criticisms against them, as you are bringing against the present move.

By Chris on Jun 26, 2008

CHRIS:

The point which you appear to miss is that both Satanic and divine “overpowerings” can and do occur with clear consequences. No-where in the Bible is there any basis to conclude that the Holy Spirit is compulsive as was described by the late David Cartledge and by others. The Bible passages which you previously cited (June 25, above) do not lead to that conclusion other than by eisegesis not exegesis. I needed to show this from the Bible passages themselves. That’s why I went to great length to quote and explain each passage or group of passages referenced by you. I didn’t miss your point, but you have missed mine. We have to consider “the whole counsel of God” to come to a correct theological conclusion. Your argument is based on selective “proof-texts”, which when examined have really little to do with the issue and certainly do not support your claim.

We agree that strange things did occur in biblical and church history including in what historians call “revivals”. The point is that every strange occurrence should NOT be put down to being of God. The human response to the “presence of God” may be varied. Revivalists and Bible teachers recognise this. You are wrong about John Wesley. This is what he reports in his writings: “I was a little surprised at some, who were buffeted of Satan in an unusual manner, by such a spirit of laughter as they could in no wise resist, though it was pain and grief to them. I could scarce have believed the account they gave me, had I not known the same thing ten or eleven years ago. Part of Sunday, my brother and I used to spend in walking in the meadows and singing psalms. But one day, just as we were beginning to sing, he burst out in loud laughter. I asked him if he was distracted and began to be very angry, and presently I began to laugh as loud as he; nor could we possibly refrain, though we were ready to tear ourselves in pieces, but we were forced to go home without singing another line.” (From the Journal of John Wesley, May 1740 taken from my own article entitled “THE ONGOING GENUINE REVIVAL” - http://www.christian-witness.org/archives/van2000/revival00.html)

Your argument is superficial and your conclusion is false. Why did Wesley and the other genuine revivalists including Jonathan Edwards. George Whitfield, Evans Roberts and the early Pentecostals whom you have referred to—Donald Gee, T B Barrett etc—all in their wiser reflections decry the extremes, the bizarre and the clearly demonic? It was because they realised that the things which the present (Todd Bentley) and the previous (Howard-Browne, John Arnott, Steve Hill, John Kilpatrick et al) so called “revivalists” applauded as “manifestations” of the Holy Spirit are not that at all. Check them against the plumb line of Scripture and they turn out to be human counterfeits at best and demonic deceptions at worst. True manifestations of the Holy Spirit demonstrate self-control, not irrational and out of control occurrences. That is the point that you miss.

Chris I challenge you to read “War on the Saints” (Unabridged Edition) by Jessie Penn-Lewis with Evan Roberts, and face the fact that what former men and women of God acknowledged to be counterfeits and deceptions are the very things that the promoters of Toronto and Pensacola proclaimed to be the doings and workings of God. Both the Bible and common sense say they are not and cannot be.

Sadly the door opened by those leaders who supported the former false movements of the Kansas City Prophets, Toronto and Pensacola when they should have known better, has allowed the greater expressions of evil and violence linked to the so called Florida Healing Revival to occur. They need to acknowledge their mistakes and to repent openly and publicly.

http://christian-witness.org/pdf/TheUK%20Assembliesof%20God-ADifferentMovementwiththeSameName.pdf

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 29, 2008

Philip

In my view they indeed demonstrate God sometimes overpowers people either in judgement or when they are having a positive encounter with Him. There are examples of both Holy Spirit and demonic encounters throughout the Scriptures. What you explained was your interpretation of those scriptures, which avoided the central issue of our discussion regarding people being overpowered in some way by the Lord. Again those scriptures clearly show that a sovereign God does sometimes overpower His people, as they submit to Him.

Regarding all meetings of the historic revivalists you mentioned – they did testify to manifestations as the Holy Spirit came on people. For example Donald Gee wrote of A.A Boddy’s meetings that “sometimes those newly-filled with the Spirit would go home through the empty streets in the small hours of the morning as outwardly intoxicated as those who had been drinking the wine of this world (compare Acts ii, 13).” - Donald Gee, ‘Wind and Flame’ (Assemblies of God Publishing House, 1967, p. 23)

In The Apostolic journal edited by William J. Seymour of Azusa Street - A.A Boddy himself testified that after one of Barrett’s meetings: “The next morning the Holy Ghost came in mighty power, causing me to laugh as I had never done in my life.” (The Apostolic Faith, June, 1907 vol. 1, no. 9, p. 1)

Boddy’s wife also wrote of one of the meetings: “Then the power fell. There were times when we were all shouting, screaming and laughing together under the power of the Spirit” (The Apostolic Faith, May, 1908 vol II, no. 13, p. 4)

In the third issue of November 1906 - A testimony of one man who attended the Azusa Street meetings reads: “There is such power in the preaching of the Word in the Spirit that people are shaken on the benches. Coming to the altar, many fall prostrate under the power of God, and often come out speaking in tongues. Sometimes the power falls on people and they are wrought upon by the Spirit during testimony or preaching and receive Bible experiences. . . There is a shaking such as the early Quakers had and which the old Methodists called the “jerks.”

These are just a few examples.

All these publications are obtainable for any who are interested in the truth of this matter.

Chris

By Chris on Jun 29, 2008

Dear Philip,

I don’t know why you want to go around name-calling with remarks such as “stupid and simple”, it’s not a good argument. Fred Lancaster went around telling people I was ignorant once, causing a lot of unnecessary hurt and division. So, you see, I’m “stupid and simple”, too. I’m a “Galilean”, as they would have said in Bible days. What of it?

Steve,

I don’t know if you come back and read here, but I’m excited to hear of your healing. I, too, was healed of acute hypertension by the power of Jesus Christ alone, but I didn’t have to go to Lakeland to get it. In fact I didn’t have to go anywhere, nor did I need a man with a “special anointing”. I just prayed, and Jesus healed me.

Think about the similarities between this and the Pool of Bethesda. Think about what it means to the poor if we promote Lakeland –a place– as the means of anointing, or the visitation of angels as necessary for healing. Doesn’t this remind you of Bethesda?

Think about the poor, crippled man who had, somehow, got himself thus far, only to be continually denied his opportunity due to his impotence and lack. Do you know that many feel as this man? That they cannot afford to “get to Lakeland” so they cannot be healed? It was the same with Toronto, Pensacola, and Brownsville.

Think about the need for an angelic visitation before the opportunity for healing came. Doesn’t it seem strange that angelic visitations are being promoted in abundance here? What did Jesus say to the man who could not afford the angelic visitation? He said, “Take your bed and go home.” Because one greater than the angels was there (and is here).

And what about the striking charges? “Kicking people in the head, knocking some bloke’s tooth out, punching people in the belly.”

I meditated on the Scriptures to the best of my knowledge about this for a while, and it seems God discourages it. Moses struck the rock and was rebuked for it. Namaan the leper wanted the prophet to “strike the place of the illness”, but God disallowed it. Why? Because the use of physical force exalts the man and not God.

And what of the man with the “special anointing”? we can learn much from the story of Namaan concerning this also. “The man with the special anointing” did not even attend the miracle — he sent his servant with an instruction, “Go and dip in Jordan seven times.”

The same is true in the Gospels. Jesus said, “These signs will follow them that believe.” It does not take a “special anointing”, an office of any kind, just faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You don’t have to be “commissioned of men” to do this. Just willing and obedient. Niether do you need an “impartation” from any man.

All of this sounds like that of which Jesus spoke, “Look! He’s in the desert (Toronto, let’s say), or, see, he’s over there (Lakeland, Pensicola, and so on)!” That is the point being made by those who feel the need to warn against such things.

Why do we burden people with all these things, and make it difficult for them to believe and receive? There is no need for Todd Bentley and his angels. There is no need to visit Lakeland. All that you need is Jesus and his mighty name. You don’t need to be punched, kicked, or slapped. All you need is to believe. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. It’s that simple, for he is greater than all these things.

I will say, as I have always said, Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be healed for, His name, through faith in his name, will make you whole.

In Christ,

Kerry.

By Anonymous on Jun 29, 2008

Dear Kerry

Where did I say that one has to go to Lakeland or anywhere else to be healed? Of course He can heal you wherever you are (and I am glad he healed you too) - I just happened to be healed in Lakeland, not by any special person, but just an ordinary person sitting next to me who had a word of knowledge and prayed for me during the time of worship.

I did not go to Lakeland to be healed - but simply because i felt the Lord calling me to go. It was simply an act of faith and obedience - for me.

Steve

By Anonymous on Jun 29, 2008

God Bless you Philip as you use scripture to contend with the false teachings of the so-called “anointed ones.” The Apostle Paul often warned about those who would pervert the simple Gospel of Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 2:11,12….”for this cause God shall send strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” This delusion can only be avoided by faithful commitment to the Word of God and the rejection of all that is false. 1Thessalonians 5:21 Judge all things: hold fast to that which is good. 2Thessalonians2:15…..”stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or by our epistle.”
Wayne

By Wayne Capell on Jun 29, 2008

Thank you Kerry and Steve for your helpful comments. It’s a good thing to have a sensible discussion even when there is disagreement. Hopefully we can help each other and in doing it publicly can help others.

KERRY:

Your comments to Steve are especially good. If I have named someone as “stupid” in an offensive manner I sincerely apologize. Please tell me where I have done that. I knew the late Fred Lancaster (FL), whom you name, very well and considered him an astute and godly leader. Obviously what you say about his comment is a personal issue. He may have been wrong, but on the other hand we have all acted “stupidly” on occasions so I wouldn’t personally see it as a big deal, that he called you “stupid” no matter how it turned out. These are things that must be forgiven and forgotten. I know that I too have acted stupidly on occasions – well at least once (smile), but never seriously.

STEVE:</p>

I have generally enjoyed our interactions notwithstanding our disagreements. It appears that a pertinent conclusion on which we might be able to agree is that there are strange so called “manifestations” in genuine revivals which may be mere human reactions or can be truly divine intrusions or may be satanic counterfeits. Biblically it was the skeptics who claimed that the disciples on the Day of Pentecost were drunk. It was not the biblical conclusion. In fact quite the opposite. Those men were in total control of their actions as witness the marvellous sermon by Peter to the gathered crowd.

When communicators of the Gospel are rendered dumb there is something wrong. It is not a blessing and never was. It is always a judgment. Just as John Wesley discerned what happened to him and his brother as being something that emanated from Satan, so today those who are in tune with the true God of the Bible discern that what happened with the Kansas City Prophets and at Toronto, Pensacola etc was largely a demonic deception. What’s happening with the Florida “revival” and Todd Bentley is far worse, BUT it is predicated upon the former deceptions. That’s why we have URGENTLY called upon those who opened the door, including many of the AoG leaders in Britain, Australasia and USA etc to repent and thus to foreclose on the plague which is spreading so rapidly. It is the ONLY hope of putting an end to this thing which now has the sinister signs of violence which can only get worse unless the tide is stemmed.

The late Donald Gee, whom I knew in a sort of detached way, may have been just quoting third party anecdotal evidence that could have emanated from “sceptics”, when he described what looked like drunken behaviour. We shall never know. What we do know is that Scripture has laid down guide lines by which we can test these sorts of things, which is what Jesse Penn-Lewis and Evan Roberts did in their book (see my above comment to CHRIS). The overriding biblical principle is that there should always be “self-control” NOT out of control erratic behaviour (cf. 1 Cor.14:40 with verses 26 to 33). It is certain that God allowed the weird events of the Kansas City Prophets and the Toronto and Pensacola so called Blessing, which it wasn’t, to test the people just as He allowed certain things to test Israel. It is part and parcel of the drift (rush) towards the “great apostasy” so that God becomes totally judicial and just:

1 Cor. 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Laughter can be merely a human experience or it might be divinely initiated or at times it may be demonic. You are right in pointing to divine occasions and may be what happened to AA Boddy falls into that category, but interestingly it was something that occurred in private as did the event with Abram (Genesis 17:17). The major “sign” of Toronto etc was a laughter that was public and was humanly contrived by Rodney Howard-Browne (RHB) applying what is a well known crowd manipulation “device” used by secular hypnotists. Like “yawning” laughter is contagious when practiced within a group. RHB deliberately orchestrated it from the platform and the bigger the crowd the greater the impact. Those who mimicked him such as Tim Hall in Australia and Ken Gott in UK acted in the same way. This is not something which descends from above but is based on human wisdom, which starts as being “earthly” and then descends into the “sensual” and “devilish” cf. James 3:15.

Our Lord taught: “By their fruits you shall know them” (Matt.7:16 & 20). Our problem is that we have confused immediate apparent results with “fruit”. Fruit takes time to grow and mature. The fruit of the Kansas City Prophets is extreme immorality, while that of Toronto and Pensacola is divided homes and families and closed (good) Churches and now violence being produced within the so called “Church” though NOT within the true Church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Kingdom Now teachers advocate “violence” in order to bring in the Kingdom. Todd Bentley’s weird ideas become a natural extension of that idea. He kicks and punches people, on one occasion, as can be viewed on You-Tube in order to heal a man of Stage 4 cancer of the colon. The incident might have been staged of course. If it was then it shows the level to which this man will stoop to create a sensation. If it was genuine then as the word over commentary in the YouTube suggests the evidence should be shown to the lawyer for the man who was kicked. That would forever put an end to this stupidity.

KERRY - there I go again ! I’ve used that word once more but I can think of none better or more appropriate.

God bless you both and all who read this.

Set for the defence of the True Gospel of our lovely Lord Jesus Christ cf. Phil.1:17.

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 29, 2008

THE UK ASSEMBLIES OF GOD – a different movement with the same name

Hi Philip,

I know what you mean and I agree.

I was saved from a RC background in Feb:1970 and entered an AoG church in Glasgow where I still attend.
Being a babe in Christ in the 70s I subscribed to our church magazine “The Redemption Tidings” hoping to learn something, and I did, for it was then that it happened. The alarm bells started to ring. RC priests, nuns, were referred to as “Brothers and sisters in Christ” in one article Pope John was referred to as being a saved man, etc. I was left wondering just why the Lord had bothered to take me out of Rome.

It became so bad that I cancelled my subscription, but it would take another six years or so for the minister to follow suit, needless to say the congregation were influenced by his action that they too cancelled their subscription.

I belong to a good Bible based church, nevertheless, I am left wondering why we have not abandoned the AoG in its present form, because those at the helm have long since run the ship onto the rocks.

Psalms 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

A few years ago, I read an article in CETF about the antics of Paul Weaver at one of the AoG conferences so I decided to write to him in the hope that he would clear things up, but instead, I received a letter from him saying that he had me investigated, and that his investigation showed that I was not, or ever had been a member of the AoG, so he was not obliged to answer my questions. This was the straw that was to break this camel’s back. Although I still attend the AoG In Glasgow I refer to myself as “Nondenominational”.

I would urge all Bible believing assemblies to consider coming apart from the AoG in its present form, and to abandon the madness that seems to have infected certain of its hierarchy.

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

Brother - Alexander Lennox
59 Braehead Lochwinnoch
PA12 4BJ - Scotland

EDITORIAL - NOTE This comment has NOW been transfered to the New Thread about the AoG and Philip Powell’s article entitled “AoG-UK - a different movement with the same name”

By Anonymous on Jun 29, 2008

Jesus spent His time and his life living and stating what he was FOR. He was FOR people, He was FOR life, He was FOR salvation, He was FOR healing, He was FOR the kingdom. I find it tragic that so many Christians spend their time and energy on what they are AGAINST. That is not how Christ lived. Try applying the Gamaliel principle (it is biblical); “Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” (Acts 5:39)

By Helen on Jun 30, 2008

Philip

The main thing about Toronto was not laughing or any other manifestation - but intimacy with God and renewing one’s first love for Christ. (Contrary to the accusations by sceptics - this still continues with thousands of people attending conferences there from all over the world). It is sceptics who are making the big noise about the manifestations at Toronto and Lakeland - those are not the major issues for people who attend. There are a lot more tears of repentance, forgiveness, and healing of the heart than laughing. At Lakeland it is also about the hunger for God and intimacy with Him. But it is also wonderful that the most remarkable and acceleration of healings of this generation, are taking place there and around the world.

It is also not about ’special anointed ones’ but that any Christian can be used to pray and believe for people to be healed. Many of those praying at Lakeland and around the world are children - with remarkable results.

The account of laughing and drunkenness in the Spirit due to the Azusa related meetings by Gee was first hand. And we do know what he thought of it because - as quoted to you verbatim - he associated it with Acts 2:13.

You stated that Boddy and Barrett were against this – but you have been provided with their own accounts which contradict your claims.

Regarding Penn-Lewis and Roberts. It is a shame that Jesse Penn-Lewis eventually had such control over the young Evan Roberts – that she convinced him that the manifestations in his meetings were demonic. This brought an end to the Welsh revival after only 1 year. A great shame, as the main thing was not the manifestations but the dramatic changes in Welsh society at the time. Many coal miners would spend their wages on drink instead of caring for their families, which all changed after being converted in Evan’s meetings. The donkeys at mines had to be retrained as they could no longer understand the commands of their drivers who used to use swear words. Roberts’ ministry stopped altogether and he and Penn-Lewis condemned the following Pentecostal movement ignited by Azusa Street.

It has now come to light that the man in question with stage 4 cancer has been healed. If you assert that this is not true, and allude to the possibility that it was staged, don’t you think that as a minister and one who believes he is to bring warning to the body of Christ – that you are responsible for checking out the evidence? Bentley has promised that if one sends an e-mail to his ministry, they will provide you with the evidence including doctor’s reports. If you do not trust this – then you would still have enough info to do your own investigations.

I think it is stupidity, as well as unbiblical, to throw out accusations without being even willing to look at the evidence being offered.

Chris

By Anonymous on Jun 30, 2008

HELEN: (June 30, 2008)

Clearly you have not carefully read the New Testament. Our Lord spent a considerable amount of His time warning about “false prophets (teachers)” and “false signs and wonders”. You really do need to know what you are talking about before you make any attempt to teach others. Gamaliel was a Pharisee and while his counsel helped protect the “apostles” it is not inspired nor is it correct. If he were right then how come the spread of so many false religions such as Mormonism and even Roman Catholicism? Are they of God? If not then on the Gamaliel statement how can you explain their spread and present strength? And for that matter how do you account for the intense evil that is in the world if only that which is of God prospers? Your blog is really pathetic and I am sorry to have to say it. No Bible-believing person who is instructed in the Scriptures will in any way endorse or accept what you affirm.

CHRIS:

I have no doubt that the Welsh revival was genuine, and contrary to what you claim the revival continued in the principality of Wales (I am a Welshman, albeit too young to have known the Welsh Revival first hand) for two years, not one. I have studied and read widely on the subject. However the point that you miss — and keep missing — is that the occasional bizarre events were not encouraged nor endorsed by Evans or by anyone deeply involved in the revival. This is vastly different from what happened with Toronto and Pensacola and is now happening at Florida. The bizarre and outrageous are being promoted and publicized to attract inquisitive people from around the world. It is not a move of God, but a humanly contrived occurrence based on hype and internet communication.

CHRIS - do you honestly believe that God tells Todd Bentley (TB) to kick and punch people? I have seen a video of him kicking a man allegedly with Stage 4 cancer of the colon. He said he kicked one woman in the leg and another in the face. You say that it is sceptics who are publicizing this, which may be the case. However the point is he obviously did kick the man who was said to have cancer of the colon as the video records it. You are faced with a tri-lemma:
1) It was staged, in which case Bentley is a disgraceful deceiver, or
2) The man was actually kicked in which case he will have a basis to sue TB and I hope he does, or
3) The man was healed in which case it should be documented.
Personally I am inclined to think it was staged. You say there is “proof” and Todd Bentley will provide medical evidence, so I will send him this blog and ask him to do as you say. I will let you and all know how if he replies and what “evidence” he provides.

Large numbers of people from around the world continuing to go to Toronto proves nothing other than a “wicked and adulterous generation” always seek after signs. Have you read Paul Gowdy’s testimony? Paul was a leader associated with Toronto, who after nine years has come clean on what actually happened. He has denounced it and repented of his involvement in it. You can read the record here:
http://www.christian-witness.org/archives/cetf2007/toronto39.html

http://www.christian-witness.org/past_mailers/feb07mm.html

If you don’t trust our reporting then just google his name and see what comes up. Many organisations have published his story.

To claim, as you do, that the emphasis was upon “intimacy with God” is subjective. It cannot be scrutinised. Anyone can claim that sort of thing. The fact of the matter is that Toronto through the ministry of Rodney Howard-Browne and others is known worldwide for the laughing phenomenon. That is inescapable. Also as I have said, and I now repeat, the fruit of these movements is BAD. It is not good fruit and there is NO great revival as the promoters keep claiming. Where are the souls being saved? Where is society being changed as occurred in the previous revivals – the Wesleyan, those under Jonathan Edwards and George Whitfield and above all the Welsh revival? Read Edwin Orr’s classic “The Second Great Evangelical Awakening” in which he documents entire societies being changed in their moral climate etc. Yes even the Welsh pit-ponies were affected.

You are wrong — dead wrong — and I suspect that Todd Bentley will not provide any substantive evidence. Though on your suggestion I will try to obtain whatever he has.

God bless you.

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 30, 2008

Timothy 2:15 says “Study to show thyself approved unto God, A workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

1 Thessalonians 5:21 states “Judge all things: hold fast to that which is good.”

Galatians 1: 10,11 and 12 says ‘….do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

2 Thessalonians 2: 15 ‘….stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or by our epistle.”

2 Thessalonians 2; 11,12 ‘….for this cause God shall send strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrrighteousness.”

Argue your philosophies all you like but the God of the bible is the one we all have to convince on the Judgement Day. Only His Truth will count on that day.

By Wayne Capell on Jun 30, 2008

Amen Wayne - I agree

By Chris on Jun 30, 2008

Helen,

I think you would find it difficult for your reasoning to stand up in the face of the gospels. To say that Jesus never criticized the way things were being done is not correct. He constantly challenged the religious in his day.

Kerry.

By Kerry Stevenson on Jul 1, 2008

I suppose honesty here would show that I am not against manifestations, just cautious in the use and promotion of them. I believe that there should be openess to God, and a recognition of his work.

I was actually excited to hear of Steve’s healing because I have never heard of someone else being healed of hypertension as I was before. When I was healed I prayed, “Lord, I want to tell people YOU did it. I want to testify to, and glorify you.” And God healed me.

This prayer came out of something I saw in Jesus’ comment when healing the blind man, and I saw it was his healing, and not his blindness that brought glory to God. I wrote a couple of verses on this theme.

Now I was praying, and searching because I was vexed as to how to encourage my brothers and sisters in Christ to open up to the wonder of God’s great delight and willingness to heal, when the idea of a “game” came to me, called “crack-the-whip”.

In crack-the-whip we would all stand in line, alongside each other, and, at the moment the “head” or, “Handle” indicated, we would raise our joined hands and shout, “Jesus”, or, “Hallelujah!”

Now, I can’t say there were wild demonstrations of people being lifted from the ground, or being thrown to the floor; but people were healed, and most went away having “felt a blessing”.

I suppose that, because this is not in the Bible and perhaps a bit frivolous it must be of the devil? Each will have to determine that for themselves. I did it to bring glory to God.

Many have argued that it is the critics that emphasise the manifestations, but that is not how it first came to me. However, I have no first hand evidence of what is happening there, and I try to weigh up what each side is saying, commenting on some of the things related.

I would definitely not say that Steve’s miracle, or any other came from the Devil, especially since so many of those healed give accreditation to Jesus and his wonderful name. And I do not believe that one can toss the whole into the deception of the end times as I so often hear.

John said, “Every spirit that confesses not that Jesus is the Christ [and that he has come in the flesh] is antichrist.”

Is this true of Todd Bentley?

I think we should take the whole counsel of Scripture into consideration, and not just some selective verses.

Kerry

By Kerry Stevenson on Jul 1, 2008

Having been a Pentecostal all my life and also involved in ministry as one for 45 years I would like to say this.
I have seen top healing evangelists’ meetings. Have seen many healings and raising of the dead in our own ministry.
However, it has been evident from all this experience that there probably would be around 3% only who are definitely healed.
The reason for this?
a. Gifts of healings and miracles have never been promised in the Scriptures to work indiscriminately.
b. Hebrews 2:4 shows that God uses healings and miracles to confirm the Word of the Gospel, apparently in the majority of cases.
c. The epistles never emphasize healing and miracles above the spreading of the Word and Truths of the gospel and the Christian walk.
d. Despite what millions of Pentecostals and Charismatics say, healing is not in the atonement, in the sense they believe. Yes, the body will be healed for immortality in the resurrection.
e. 1 Peter 2 is about slaves suffering at the hands of their masters. To all believers, Paul says, verse, He Himself bore OUR sins in his bodey on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness”. Then he apparently speaks to those slaves, “By his wounds YOU have been healed”.
f. The verses 18 to 23 justify this meaning. The tormented slaves were to act as Jesus, and “entruswt themselves to Him”. In particular, they had been healed of their sins and could react righteously.
g. Paul would not diverge from the whole subject to instal one small paragraph about another, in this case, what people take top mean, healing for the body in “you were healed”.f.

By Irene Faulkes on Jul 1, 2008

Compared to Todd and Benny, the ministry of David Hathaway is like a breath of fresh clean air! Currently in Eastern Europe he works under a wonderful and blessed anointing of Jesus Christ by His Spirit and there is never any ‘funny business’ at these meetings. The power of the Gospel is followed by miracles of healing and deliverance, churches are planted by the converts to Jesus and no impartations are needed!
Hathaway’s history is remarkable for his love of Jesus leading him to be imprisoned for Bible smuggling - his seeking of the one true Holy Spirit, and the total absence of any vileness in his background. This is a man I would gladly extol in Christ - clean and gentle all the way and not that well known. Web site www.propheticvision.org.uk

By Abraham on Jul 4, 2008

Abraham

God uses people with a ‘clean’ past and an ‘unclean’ past. That’s fine that there is no ‘funny business’ in Hathaway’s meetings. However, that is not the test for whether someone is of God or not. There are many examples of ‘funny business’ throughout the scriptures when God’s power comes on people.

Chris

By Anonymous on Jul 4, 2008

Thank you for your comments, Irene. More objective biblical reasoning like that would go a long way towards restoring the church to some form of spiritual order.

Thank you for your comments also, Abraham.

I sincerely appreciate the mature expression of Christian reality that you seem to be referring to and the knowledge that something wholesome and genuinely Christian in terms of Biblical conformity is indeed happening somewhere in the world. What you refer to certainly is like a breath of fresh air. I have never heard of this man but I am sincerely hoping that there is indeed something genuine happening.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 4, 2008

The issue of authentic evidence for the miracles claimed to have taken place under Todd Bentley’s “ministry” has been transferred to a new thread entitled “Please Provide the Medical Evidence for the Healing of the Man with Stage 4 metastatic Cancer” posted on today’s date - July 5, 2008.

So far Todd Bentley (outpouring@ignitedchurch.com), Stephen Strader (stephenstrader@gmail.com), and Dr Gary GREIG (garygre@earthlink.net) have failed to produce any evidence, though challenged to do so. Stephen Strader offered a pathetic excuse which you can read on this transferred blog.

Please go there and add your comment.

By philip on Jul 5, 2008

And here is God’s Word on the matter…seems pretty clear to me…unless of course ‘no’ doesn’t mean ‘no’ and ’striker’ doesn’t mean ’striker’ *smiling*

“A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, NO STRIKER, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous…” 1 Tim. 2:2&3

“For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, NO STRIKER, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate…” Titus 1:7&8

And if John the Baptist counselled the earthly soldiers to ‘do violence to no man’ (Luke 3:14), then surely for spiritual soldiers that counsel is even more strongly applicable.

And God bless thee and thine brother Phillip…

By Gillian on Jul 5, 2008

Those being deceived believe they know the truth. But their truth is entangled with falsehood. They do not understand the other point of view and they argue that black is white. But delivered from the lying/seducing/deceiving spirit their minds become free to recognise real truth. The spirit of deception - amongst others - emanates from Todd Bentley’s showroom. His supernatural manifestations are exactly the same as those displayed by Indian gurus, particularly those of kundalini Hinduism. They also have spellbound their disciples.

Nothing is new under the sun. The Woman was deceived to believe that she would become “like God” through suddenly becoming “wise” (Gen.3:1-7). The theory of evolution in a nutshell: evolve from human spirit to god-type spirit - from microbe to man - by a mystical process, painless, with no price to pay. Bentley is really promoting spiritual evolutionism: receive the ‘impartation’, take it back with you and use it - in other words, get ‘god’, become ‘god’, and practice being ‘god’. The supernatural signs are your credentials of personal evolution. It’s easy: it bypasses Jesus and the need for Cross.

Bentley is deceived and I pray that his eyes are opened as well as those who seek supernatural manifestations for proof that their ‘god’ is within them.

Blessings

Glenn

By Glenn on Jul 5, 2008

I would like to point everyone to a good illustration of Stephen Strader’s “mature” debate tactics:

http://www.purposedrivel.com/2008/06/level-of-discourse-drops-considerably.html

No I am not going to post your reply there Stephen. You go get your own blog and blast us there.

The tattoos are the LEAST concern we have about Todd Bentley and they’re the only issue to which you can respond coherently, precisely because they are a minor issue. If he had no tattoos and no piercings I would still believe he is a false prophet by what he teaches. And so would these people.

However Stephen, the issue of YOUR public defences of both your father’s lying and fleecing his church, and your brother’s financial crimes, surely should trouble ANYONE who would like to take your writing seriously.

By Paula Coyle on Jul 8, 2008

My goodness but there are some nasty little spirits in here. You people need to get a life.
i’m outta here….

By Anonymous on Jul 8, 2008

I have a question,
-Are the authorites in the community such as the mayor, or community leaders aware of these goings on?
-Are they doing an investigation into this?
-How can they be alerted to this?
I know msnbc has done an article about this, but this is just not enough. I said on another post, that if Todd Bentley was American his name would be on the sexual predator list. Doesn’t that bother anyone??
When I saw the utube video of todd bentley laughing on the floor, that should have sparked a mass exodus to the doors, but instead people didn’t question and just accepted this as a move of God. There is no proof of any miracle that has taken place nor is there proof that any demons have been cast out. From the video you could see this was all staged. Oh I pray they do something soon about this. From what I shared on here, on what we went through, I don’t take any leader’s word on anything but I check the scriptures first. We are free in Christ, and I am not putting myself on anyone’s control or bondage again. I am enjoying my freedom and I am not looking for signs and wonders to feel good. My faith is in Christ and Him alone. He is my sufficiency, he is my everything. I don’t seek for the show anymore.
Great peace are those who love thy law, and nothing shall offend them Psalm 119:165
The one thing I have noticed that when I talk to anyone about this todd bentley thing, 100% of the time they get offended and angry.
He leads us beside the still waters, not the hype and emotionalism. I personally don’t feel we should have these huge pep rallies.
I pray they truly shut this thing down. from Joyce,

What is very concerning is that this does bring money to the Lakeland area, because of the visitors. Are they going to compromise this and allow it because of the income in the area????? Where is the stand for truth and integrity. This is very very serious, I am comparing this to the Jim Jones cult’s tragedy, as people are just accepting this without question. NO man should be accepted this way. May the Lord have mercy.

By joyce on Jul 9, 2008

You Christians are weird -I thought God was about love -but you all hate each other -I will try something else.

By Winston on Jul 9, 2008

Joyce, if you try and assess the meetings at Lakeland through a clip on u-tube you will not get a full picture until you watch a few whole evenings on tv or the internet. You have a real distorted picture of what is happening there. People are not going there to follow Todd Bentley or any other person.

By Mike on Jul 10, 2008

If God could use a donkey in the Bible–then why are you concerned about what a man looked like if he is in the will of God. What has this man done that gives you the right to call him a false prophet??

By great awakening on Jul 11, 2008

Why have so many of you taken precious time bashing ministers when you yourself should be out ministering to sinners and pray that the Holy Spirit will draw them into the Kingdom of God. The gospel is for salvation through Jesus Christ. Stop bashing the ministers of God.

By great awakening on Jul 11, 2008

It is NOT ministers of the ONE TRUE GOD - The GOD of the Bible who have been subjected to biblical scrutiny in the comments on these blogs but false teachers, false prophets and false christs about whom the bible repeatedly warns us to be wary.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 12, 2008

I agree with you 100% concerning false teachers and false christs. I have only one God–Father God our creator, One Savior–Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit of the Most High God. I am not here to argue but to understand why everyone is condemning a man of God who preaches the gospel of Jesus Christ.

By great awakening on Jul 12, 2008

No one is condemning any man of God who preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 12, 2008

I am signing off this post but appreciate all the information. In God’s Love, Great Awakening

By great awakening on Jul 13, 2008

yes you are Wayne

By Anonymous on Jul 14, 2008

Anonymous,
There is excellent teaching on why every mature believer is to exercise discernment on this website’s blog “to judge”. When you have opportunity please read & consider it.
Kind regards

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 14, 2008

Paul, I believe in discernment - but what this website refers to as discernment, I refer to as suspicion and scepticism based on slander. Perhaps you need discernment to see that.

By Anonymous on Jul 14, 2008

Anonymous, you desperately need to follow the advice offered by Paul.
Some time ago I seem to recall you saying your name was Tim Johnson.

The Jesus you refer to seems more likely to be Jesus Johnson than Jesus Christ. The Jesus of the Bible the Son of God sent to save us from false religion and all the other falsehoods of life is the ONLY one who can save us on the Judgement Day. You can only know HIM by knowing what He says about Himself and Life.

I urge you to discard your Jesus Johnson and to seek the true and living God whilst HE may yet be found.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 15, 2008

Stop being silly, Wayne.

By Anonymous on Jul 15, 2008

A minister of God, according to the Bible, must have certain credentials. In 1st Tim. 3, and Titus 1, you will find that they must be (amongst other things) ‘blameless’, ‘of good behaviour’, ‘no STRIKER’, and that he MUST have “a good report of them which are without.”

Any ‘minister’ who’s behaviour is questionable, strikes anyone, and does not have a good report of those outside of the Church cannot be a minister of ‘God.’

Therefore, judging by these scriptures, Todd Bentley is excluded from the ministry by the God Who authored its credentials.

To then say that he is being used by God in such a capacity is to say that God has not only ignored His own Word but completely gone against it, whilst at the same time urging His followers to use it to discern Biblically endorsed ministry.

By Gillian on Jul 15, 2008

Gillian
1) Being a striker is someone who is normally a fighter and hurts people physically.
2) Todd Bentley is a gentle and loving person. If you have any evidence that he has actually hurt someone physically since being a minister then you should deal with it in a biblical manner.
3) That biblical manner involves the people who actually have a relationship with him and with whom he has accountability.
4)You do not, so - unless he hurt you or one of your family or friends - what you think and say about the matter is completely irrelevant.

I will leave you guys to get on with your straw man arguments.

By Anonymous on Jul 15, 2008

Anonymous,
I appear to have offended you by suggesting you consider the “to judge” blog’s teachings.
This was not intended - please forgive me for that. The advice was suggested only because it IS good teaching.
I have encountered too many leaders who have mis-taught on issues of biblical submission (including ‘disciples’ writing covenants of unquestioning loyalty to their earthly leaders). Christian Faith Centre, Sydney, and True Vine Christian Community, Mullumbimby, NSW, gave outcomes of spiritually-battered sheep due primarily to over-emphasis on submission and giving leaders ‘carte blanche’ to do and say whatever they wanted. Too many then try to authenticate themselves by pointing to the wonders they’ve done, and making out that discernment is a sign of a rebellious mind. People caught in such systems are not honoured, nor even listened to when they raise genuine questions. Damage is done to many.
FYI I have been involved in picking up the pieces from such fallout, too often. And because many in church leadership seem to be addicted to power it is essential for them to be transparent and accountable in ALL their dealings.
P.S. Can you change to a unique ‘tag’ for us, as there could be many Anonymi on this blog, and it helps to know which one says which. Thanks.

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 15, 2008

Ahh, dear Anonymous,

That will not fly my friend.

The verse does not say ‘not normally a striker’, it says ‘NO striker.’ It gives no room for amount or degree - it just says ‘no’.

One wonders, if you ignore the ‘Biblical’ criteria [especially that a minister MUST have a good report of them without] then what criteria are YOU using to determine that Todd Bentley meets God’s standard?

You see, it is not what ‘I’ say about the matter, it is what God says in the verses mentioned.

Your argument is with the scriptures.

By Gillian on Jul 15, 2008

No, Gillian - my argument is with your corrupt and hypocritical treatment of the scriptures.

By Anonymous on Jul 15, 2008

Why, herein is a marvellous thing indeed Anonymous,

Whilst it appears that you struggle to accept Bible words or verses at face value, ever wishing to tell us of their ‘real meaning’, the Apostle Paul tells us that he and others used ‘great plainness of speech’(2 Cor.3:12). I am inclined to believe that he did not depart from this ‘great plainness’ in any of his epistles.

By Gillian on Jul 15, 2008

Like I said - if you have any evidence that Todd has hurt anyone from the victim themselves, then you might have something relevant to say.

I will leave you with all your straw man arguments.

By Anonymous on Jul 15, 2008

I was prayed for at Lakeland by one of Todd’s associates. Before he even got to me within an arms reach, the power of God hit me like a wave and I went down. Now he prayed gently, but it would have made no difference if he came running at me like a head-butting steam-roller - it was the power of God that pushed me over not the person praying.

By Anonymous on Jul 16, 2008

Dear Anonymous,

Your last post highlights well how people can be deceived into placing an ‘experience’ above the Word of God.

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, YE MIGHT WELL BEAR WITH HIM” (2 Cor. 11:3,4)

I do pray that you will reconsider your own position my friend.

And with that, I rest my case.

By Gillian on Jul 16, 2008

Gillian

I believe in the Risen Lord Jesus Christ as revealed in scripture and the gospel as Paul explained in 1 Cor:15 - not another Jesus. So your straw man case is irrelevant.

“…a person with an experience is never at the mercy of a person with an argument.”

By Anonymous on Jul 16, 2008

We would like to have ministerial fellowship with you
Dear Spiritual leaders ,
LOVE AND PEACE FROM INDIA IN JESUS MOST PRECIOUS NAME..
I would like to introduce myself as Pastor M. Yesuvaraprasad, from India, the Lord has been faithful and I praise God for His Grace and mercy. By His grace I have been witnessing Jesus to the hundreds of Hindu idol worshippers and God the Holy Spirit has led several to the Salvation. I trust my letter would present the needs in promoting the Gospel Work in India
’Word of Life Ministries’ is a faith ministry. We are NEW ministries working with burden for the perishing souls and beseeching the Lord for prospective fellowship with right people and churches. The ‘WORD OF LIFE MINISTRIES’ involve in :- Church Planting, Supporting Missionaries, Orphanage Ministry, Services to the Leper Patients,
Please kindly pray for us and for the Ministries in which we should become involved as God the Holy Spirit leads us for the Glory to His name and for the Well-being and Salvation of the Humanity. Please kindly support us, visit us, minister to our people, as your kind fellowship enables us to do a great ministry in India. We are looking for your kind cooperation in the name of Jesus Christ. Prayerfully waiting for your kind reply.
Sincerely in His Ministry,
REV.M.YESUVARAPRASAD
Word of Life Ministries, (Registered)
Ramachandrapuram – 533 255 E.G.Dt A.P India
Email: wordoflifeministry@gmail.com
Mobile: 091-9849261530

By REV.M.YESUVARAPRASAD on Aug 8, 2008

A bit late in the day, I am thanking Wayne Capell for his response, in the same manner I can’t say the same for any of anonymous’s responses! With hindsight it is so clear that Todd’s ministry through Fresh Fires was not anointed of God. In my opinion he was surrounded by evil and deceiving spirits, who gave him his alien powers. How do I dare to say this I wonder. Well because a load of them went home with him and
(a) destroyed his marriage
(b) caused untold distress to his kids
(c) likely as not destroyed another family if the woman with whom he was fornicating was also married
(d)caused him to return to his heavy drinking habits
(e) made it necessary for John Arnott to write as ‘powerful’ apology on behalf of Todd as possible.
Every pro-Todd blogger should now ask God for wisdom to carefully consider all they have said - have they been deceived or is he just a fallen giant waiting to get back on his feet again?
Incidentally I will prophesy now that another will take his place as a prelude to the appearance of the False Prophet, far more subtle and convincing who will be able to ‘bring down fire from heaven’. Todd only ever shouted for it to come down. Let’s bide our time and we will see these things take place.

By Abraham on Aug 29, 2008

To Philip L. Powell …. You should be known as the Warning Horn of the Lord … what you are doing we ALL should be doing. God bless you Philip for standing in the gap. I just read your article “The Judgement Was Set” where you were filled with righteous indignation over the Muslim chanting … after having enjoyed a steady diet of Dave Hunt’s books and DVDs, I’m also horrified at the subtle lies and deceptions of Muslim leaders here in my own country and state. I’m 65 now, was a writer and journalist all my life and I love the Lord completely … we’ve spoken once or twice.
If I can be of any help, even assisting with editing … I’m here and open to you. I firmly believe in your wonderful “warning” ministry and am very pleased the Lord is using you in such a vital way.
“Will I find faith when I return?” is a verse that has me shaking in my shoes sometimes. Your ministry is very likely to pull some out of the fire .. be encouraged Philip, please don’t give up brother.

By John E. Jehu on Dec 5, 2008

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By Moderator 2 on Mar 3, 2009

We had AoG’s Partington over, nothing changes:
John Partington, John is the new leader of AoG and is “a proven Evangelist who moves powerfully in the Holy Spirit”, wow what a powerful god you worship…
I heard him Sunday…
And they wonder why AoG is dead. I heard their chosen one on Sunday, coloured hair in a style that befitted him, tending to obese.
Prosperity has sucked the baby dry with their begging, money grubbing (put you own words here and I expect they are amusingly 4 letter words a la John Partington) he probably doesn’t have the worry and big mortgage of John Andrews (read the New Testament, John).
A so-called leader who squabbles over 40 quid for a few worthless books, like a barrow boy already having stashed a goodly sum into his pocket.
A so-called leader who begins a ’sermon’ with a lie, excellent. “Bad back, corset, a corset, must be a woman, I saw the miracle, I caused the miracle, only two weeks ago I was told that the miracle is still working, a man , a woman, must be a woman”, a miracle that John Partington doesn’t know what happened but he was there, he did it, he heard about it again only a couple of weeks ago, a man, a woman, who knows, probably not john partington’s powerful god.
“I have a dvd where the blind see, the deaf hear the crippled walk” to quote partington - well, show it. I haven’t seen it but send me one. (Don’t sweat I’ll pay and the postage). I know (I am a prophet) all I would see is some dear person waving a stick a la Benny Hinn, but I hope you frauds prove me wrong.
A so-called leader who prophesies worse than the clairvoyant Doris Stokes. It’s Daniel, somebody’s son (WOW what powerful god you worship) but doesn’t know his surname, three hand in air, doesn’t have a clue, a la doris stokes.
John partington mentions a few diseases that I haven’t a clue about (a la doris stokes) and then say it’ll be ok, this is just too powerful.
“Young man you will be a great man of god you will: a Pastor, or a Deacon, or an Evangelist, or an Apostle (not necessarily in that order)”. All these are ministries within the church, so if he stays in the church, he will have a ministry in the church, WOW what a powerful god you worship.
And for an obese young man, “get more, get more, get more”. No he’ll be dead by 40, tell him to get a little less, the wisdom to know when he’s full. What a powerful god doesn’t even notice the health of young people.
What a dead loss.
A leader who thinks that a sermon is made of rubbish jokes printed off the internet and can’t even be bothered to read them beforehand. A so-called leader who reads out rubbish doggerel and expects an emotional response.
A denomination who, it seems to me, have never read the New Testament. Maybe it doesn’t agree with their blab it and grab it theology. And they ask why AoG is dead and they chose him to lead them. When are they going to stop blessing the “christianity” of the likes of Brownsville.

By Andy Taylor on Jun 22, 2009

The Pentecostal movement down through the years has produced some great ‘divines’, but unfortunately this movement has gone the way of some other great movements, a generation has come up within the Pentecostal movement that know not God, and they have departed from sound teaching and have run after fables.
2Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Titus says in 1:16. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. And we can see this in many of the A.o.G’s hierarchy. John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

The truth of the matter is that people do not like change, and that is why many in the AoG won’t come out from among them, even although they know that the they are in a vehicle that has run out of Petrol (gas) yet they are reluctant to get out of the car and walk. God promised Abram that if he came out from his Idolatrous country and kindred he would bless him Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

“If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…”

God will not judge the leaders of the AoG without judging the followers, if you think that you can just sit in the car knowing that it has run out of Gas, and that by some slight of hand you will still arrive at your destination, then you delude yourself, and you will end up very disappointed. If you believe that the AoG has lost it, if you believe that it has descended into the mire, then come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 2Co 6:17 .

By Alexander Lennox on Dec 13, 2009

Hi,Our Dear and Loving friends in the good Work of God
Happy to send you our kind regards through the Love and Mercy of God.Today we are so blessed after we have taken our humble time to visit your touching and Wonderful Website which has honestly touched our lost souls and hearts.We have seen fully what is there in your website and surely it is of God.So we had been looking for this good News of God for the long time,but today we are deeply rejoicing and thanking our God that we had found what we had been seeking, and looking for ,and it’s in your website.So we are newly and born- again Christians, newly to the Word of God and kindly we don’t have the good ground to know His Word.We kindly request you and through the Mightly power,love and mercy of God ,to consider our kind prayer request to your hearts and in your ministry by allowing us to join you so that through you to be taught God’s Word.So we kindly pray for you to be our Spiritual parents.We hope through the love and prayers,you will know us through His Holy Spirit the way we are hungering and deeply thirsting to His Word. Our dear friends,help us to know God’s Light in our hearts and lives!Be blessed and loved in Him.
We are kindly looking forward to hear from you what good and step our God has spoken to you about us.In Christ’s name…Brother Al and Imma

By Brother Al and Imma on Apr 12, 2011

Perfect tips thanks for placing. In reality in all of posts of this web site there is something to learn.

By Gus Richer on Dec 22, 2011

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