Christian Witness Ministries

Bill - You seem to find it so easy to slander your brothers in Christ. You don’t have to go to seminary to know that God often uses the base things in life to confound the wise. Moses was a murderer. John the Baptist was weird. Paul the apostle was a murderer. God used a donkey to bring correction to one of his prophets. And the list of examples is almost endless. Yet we revere these men today. Todd Bentley, Bob Jones, William Branham and others whom God has used have said the very same thing about themselves. They openly admit the humiliation of their past sins. God forgave them. Won’t you? I don’t doubt your sincerity about exposing the ungodly. But I think you reach way too far at times. Some day you might need a little mercy directed toward yourself.

By Gary Morgan on May 25, 2008

William Branham was a heretic, and that was borne out by his own false teachings. Being a heretic, his own teachings put him outside of Christianity. Heretics are not brothers in Christ, but false teachers in need of salvation.

In the end (now), many will heal “in the name of Christ,” but Christ Himself will not accept them into His fold.

If the essentials of the gospel (http://williamdicks.blogspot.com/2005/10/what-is-gospel-what-is-foundation-to.html) are not adhered to, then such a person can be labeled as a heretic.

Bill, keep on exposing these false teachers!

By William Dicks on May 27, 2008

Gary my dear brother; if you believe that Todd Bentley operates under the influence of the Holy Spirit, you will be one of the multitudes who will worship the anti-christ who is soon to appear. Your lack of understanding of the Bible, and of God’s holy character, is obvious. Please, read your Bible and ask Jesus to open your eyes …. bless you

By tru on May 29, 2008

Bill Randles has composed another exposure of Todd Bentley. Did you know that Todd claimed that God told him to kick an old lady with his bikie boots and to “bang a crippled lady’s legs up and down on the platform like a base ball bat” - AND the audience laughed. The scary thing is that Bentley claimed that in both cases the ladies were healed.

This is a carry over from some of the legends [many of which are exaggerated] about Smith Wigglesworth.

<a href=”http://christian-witness.org/pdf/mypeopleloveitso.pdf” rel=”nofollow”> My People Love It So… Why There Must Be Yet Another Mystical Revival</a>

<a href=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K8XjObzfXM” rel=”nofollow”>Todd Bentley Kicks ‘Older Lady’ with his ‘Biker-Boot’</a>

By Philip on May 30, 2008

Bud Press has written an excellent article on “Todd Bentley Kicks ‘Older Lady’ with his ‘Biker Boot’” which you can read on line at http://www.christianresearchservice.com/ToddBentley2.htm

By philip on May 30, 2008

Todd Bentley a man of God? I think not. Like Kuhlman and Hinn, he received his dubious anointing from an angel I believe, and such figure very much in his so-called spiritual anointing - viz., the angel Emma and other dark forces such as Swift the Eagle messenger. Thousands being brought to Jesus? Never, at least not the beautiful Lord and Saviour I know! Brothers and sisters, discern - discern I pray you, and never forget the subtlety of the Spoiler as an angel of light (but not from heaven). Healings? possibly though the power of auto-suggestion and such like : true Salvation is IMPOSSIBLE from a man who does not - in his heart - truly know Jesus Christ and acknowledge His Lordship. The power he uses, as per Hinn and many others, is serpent power [a.k.a. Kundalini power].

By Abraham U.K. on Jun 1, 2008

AN EX-SATANIST EXPOSES THE TORONTO BLESSING

Dear Dr. Van Zyl, I’m an ex-satanist (came out of it in the 80’s) and have heard about your endeavor to combat the move called Toronto Experience. (At least some Christians have some insight, albeit a limited number.) Thank God for that! I recognize the spirits behind the Toronto Experience as being the same spirits we unleashed on the church (to deceive) when I was against Christianity. These are counterfeiting spirits, and they are being so blatant about it that I am amazed that people can’t see what is going on. The problem is that the power of these spirits lies in deception. (They are primarily religious deceiving spirits) I would be grateful if you could send me copies of exposés that you’ve written. (or who anyone else has written) as I am collecting information on what is going on. I’d like to write some exposés myself later on. I see Dr Morphew (Renewal Apologetics) had quite a bit to say about yourself and Alan Morrison. I don’t know if he lied about you, but he sure did about Alan Morrison! It would be wonderful if a few people could get together and give a nice thick response to the garbage they are circulating. I appeal to those who are concerned enough to spend their time reaching out to those who are potential victims of the Toronto Experience, before they are “had.”

For others who have the light, please don’t keep quiet. If you saw a house on fire, wouldn’t you try to warn the inhabitants? If you saw some one about to fall over a cliff, would you keep quiet? Dr Morphew, a propagator of the Toronto Experience says in his publication, Renewal Apologetics page 15; “Phenomena of the Holy Spirit attracts loons…..” Oh? But where is the criteria for determining Lunacy? The world within these churches is no different from the world within the asylum. (If you don’t believe me, visit a mental hospital and see for yourself.) In fact, sanity is relative, and it is subjective to qualify who is sane or who isn’t, (I speak from Toronto Experience perspective) so why distinguish between loons and non loons? With Toronto Experience the distinctions are so blurred that it is a case of the insane diagnosing the insane. If a madman had to break out of his asylum cell and find himself in a Toronto experience hall, he’d surely think he was still in the madhouse.

Dr Morphew says (page 14) “…. Being overcome by God does have a wonderful disorder about it, a fitting sovereign disorder.” (emphasis mine) Have you ever visited an asylum? I have friends who have ended up in an asylum for life. They yielded their minds and bodies once too often (to the same spirits active in the Toronto Experience) while in the occult. They let go and gave over control just once too often, and are in that position permanently now. They have been controlled for years, some of them, and have never resumed control over their own faculties. Satan does not play games with his victims, it is just a matter of time. I challenge people to do some investigation into what goes on in the maximum-security wards of mental hospitals. Jerking head movements is old hat there, because something else is in control of the central nervous system (when demons control people through the central nervous system, the movements are very robotic. I’ve seen countless times in the occult.)

People in madhouses (who have been put there by demons and not by physical brain damage or true psychological causes per se, also scratch like cats, hiss and bark, shake uncontrollably, and this is a favorite; they laugh continuously and uncontrollably. If you’ve ever heard of “maniacal laughter” they get that term from people who have to be institutionalized. Town Hill Hospital is a prime example of the very same kind of “wonderful disorder” as found in Toronto Experience meetings. And I just wonder (with deep regret) how many people who are still in the honeymoon phases of surrendering themselves to these spirits, will later land up in these hospitals. I’m sure many of my friends who have “gone over the top” had no idea in the initial stages of their experiences, where it was going to take them.
There is a secular alternative music group called “Depeche Mode” who have a song called “Blasphemous Rumors.” The refrain goes; “I don’t want to spread any blasphemous rumors but I think that God’s got a sick sense of humor, and when I die I expect to find him laughing…..”

If non believers had to observe everything that Toronto Experience entails, (if they had to watch very carefully) they would be convinced that God “has a sick sense of humor..” (with people manifesting as spastics, dogs, pigs, deaf and dumb, cripples, etc, coupled with hysterical laughter) What a terrible situation, because it is always God that gets the blame in the long run. Anyway, one positive factor is that people like Dr Morphew will not be able to intellectualize chaos indemnity. In my years of worshipping Satan and his demons, I discovered that forces of darkness thrive on symbolic irony, with the purpose of mocking God. It is as if they have searched the scriptures for every abomination in God’s sight, and then sought to coax believers to accommodate those abominations while bearing the name of Christ.
Isaiah 28 and 29 clearly depicts the abhorrence of God for drunken leaders of his people. He warns Israel against drunken prophets – Isaiah 28:1-5: “The kingdom of Israel is doomed! It’s glory is like the fading crowns of flowers on the heads of its leaders. Their proud heads are well perfumed, but there they lie, dead drunk…. The pride of those drunken leaders will be trampled under foot. …” Then Isaiah 19:9 says; “Go ahead and be stupid! Go ahead and be blind. Get drunk without any wine. Stagger without drinking a drop the Lord has made you drowsy, ready to fall into a deep sleep. The prophets should be the eyes of the people, but God has blinded them.

Would God, (who is ever the same) warn about drunken prophets, who are drunk without wine, and use this same symbolism (drunkenness) to prove a revival by his spirit? God is not like a man, who is prone to contradiction, nor is he like Satan who puts ‘good for evil’ and ‘evil for good.’ Does the same God who abhors drunkenness, suddenly use drunkenness as a symbol of his holy spirit? We can be sure that Satan, the author of opposites, is behind such contradictory symbolism – behavior. Satan is having a good laugh at God’s people who, in a drunken stupor (“Drunk in the spirit”) are praising God

(Source Unknown)

By tru on Jun 2, 2008

Hi, I have been warning for years about people ‘laying hands on’ others randomly. Ask any ex-satanist and they will tell you that demons are transferable. The following is one of my commentaries and may be freely copied or please ask for my e-mail and will send with original formatting. Just cut and paste into Word Document. Cheers.

THE LAYING ON OF HANDS

Warning!

Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure. 1 Tim 5:22

_______________________________

Because of the lack of discernment in the churches and even the discouragement by leaders of those whom they lead to “test all things,” there is absolutely no doubt that Satan is infiltrating the assemblies of God’s people with counterfeit practices. Whilst ‘laying on of hands’ is biblical for reasons such as; healing the sick, imparting spiritual gifts, etc, there is one particular practice associated with this which appears no where in the word of God and that is ‘the repetitive practice of calling people to the front of the pulpit every week to have something imparted to them.’ This seems to be a regular feature of every church service today. However, that is not the issue. The real issue is when God’s people are randomly and without any wisdom or discernment laying hands on people or having some one else lay hands on them. Paul’s exhortation to Timothy goes much deeper in it’s meaning. What could the apostle have been thinking of?

When Aaron has finished making atonement for the Most Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting and the altar, he shall bring forward the live goat. He is to lay both hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the wickedness and rebellion of the Israelites–all their sins–and put them on the goat’s head. He shall send the goat away into the desert in the care of a man appointed for the task. The goat will carry on itself all their sins to a solitary place; and the man shall release it in the desert. Lev 16:20-23

The Two Goats
____________

On the Day of Atonement, two goats were selected by Lot. One of the goats was to be sacrificed and burned on the alter, while the other one was to be led into the desert which was called ‘azazel.’ At other sacrificial times, only one hand of the priest was to be placed on the animal, but on the Day of Atonement, “both hands” were to be placed on the head of the animal. The sins of the people were to be confessed and thus transferred onto the goat which was then led into the desert away from the Israelites and never to return. Compare, (Ps 103:12) It is obvious that the apostle Paul had the scripture from Leviticus in mind. Notice the impartation of the people’s sins onto the head of the goat? Now, let us look at the significance of the laying on of hands as it occurs to people and in particular — God’s people.

Science and the Word of God
________________________

“Secular science has proven that hands impart a force of energy. Medical science has further substantiated this fact. In the late 1960’s a biochemist and enzymologist, M.Justa Smith, did extensive research on the biochemical effects of energy imparted through the laying on of hands. The theory was assumed that if an energy force was imparted during the laying on of the hands, that the change would be apparent at the enzymatic level, since enzymes are the crucial factor in the basal metabolism of the physical body. Tests were arranged in which enzyme-trypspin solution in several flasks had hands laid upon them for 75 minutes a day. Another flask was exposed to a high magnetic energy field, and a fourth flask was kept untouched in its natural state. The results showed that the two flasks that had hands applied to them demonstrated similar qualitative and quantitative effects to the flask exposed to the high magnetic energy field.

Further medical studies by Dr. Delores Krieger, a professor at New York University, showed that the laying on of hands raised the hemoglobin levels in the blood samples of those tested. Pretest blood samples were drawn from all those involved in the testing. It was found that the mean hemoglobin values of the blood samples changed significantly from their pretest value in those that had hands laid upon them while there was no significant difference between the pretest and the post-test hemoglobin values of those in the control group who did not have hands laid upon them. Thus, science has shown that the laying on of hands can bring significant change in the blood level of one having hands laid upon him. This would suggest that even in the natural act of laying on of hands that there is some impartation of life that occurs, since “life is in the blood” (Lev 17:13,14)

How are we to analyze and understand this recent research as supporting impartation in the laying on of hands? Is the impartation from hands only a natural phenomenon? Is there only to be considered an imparting of an energy force, affecting the physiological factor of man? Is a study in the laying on of hands to be only a study in the bioenergetics of the human metabolism? These answers to these questions must be an emphatic “no!” Secular science has provided an invaluable service to Biblical truth by supporting and proving statistically what God’s Word had purported for several millenniums, that there is an actual impartation which occurs in the laying on of the hands. Science, by its essential, empirical nature, could only examine a level of impartation in the laying on of hands that would deal with the physical and material part of man. Man, however, has not only a physical and bodily aspect, but he is also composed of the immaterial, soul and spirit. God Himself is essentially Spirit and not of material nature (John 4:24) Therefore, it would follow that the essence of that which god would impart to man through the laying on of hands of His spirit-filled servants would be more than an impartation of physical energy. Rather it would be expected that God would impart a spiritual vitality, a touch of God’s own life.

In scripture the nature of that which is imparted through the laying on of hands is supernatural in its origin. As we will see later, that which is imparted by God through the laying on of hands of his spirit-filled believers is greater than that which could be imparted through natural man. Natural man himself cannot impart through the laying on of hands that which he does not himself possess. He does possess physical energy, and so this in measure may be imparted through hands. But natural man does not have the capability to impart the supernatural, for he cannot impart that which he does not possess, unless it be a Satanic counterfeit of one possessed or controlled by Satan.”

Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep
yourself pure. 1 Tim 5:22

Do we notice Paul’s words here; ….. keep yourself pure. There is no need for a lengthy discussion. Allowing hands to be laid on could result in defilement – plain and simple.

With so many Christian practices being counterfeited today, it is vital that believers are extremely careful as to “who lays hands on them.” One particular and very popular television evangelist claims to make regular visits to the gravesites of Kathryn Kuhlman and Aimee Semple McPherson to get the “anointing” from their bones.

Let no one be found among you who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.
Deut 18:11

How would you like this man laying hands on you?

The following excerpt is from a biography of a man who spent 25 years in the spiritualist movement as an adept and later as a medium in both the UK and the USA.

“On Wednesday nights we had a developing circle with an experienced medium in charge. There were soft lights and soothing music, and people were encouraged to go into a trance. Very often psychic phenomena took place. Occasionally, someone would give a prophecy. Hands were laid on the sick and tongues were spoken. Spiritualists claim these things to be the gifts of the Holy Spirit.”

Christian, have you allowed some “here today – gone tomorrow” minister to lay hands on you? Were you aware of that person’s background, what they teach, what noises they make such as hissing, when they lay hands on you, regardless of their high profile and miraculous claims? Are you quick to believe the credibility of some one because your pastor says they are alright? As we have seen, not only from scientific evidence, but most importantly of all from God’s Word, that the laying on of hands definitely imparts something not just physical, but also spiritual. Here is something else worth pondering the next time you avail yourself to have some one lay hands on you with knowing them personally. A poll conducted in the USA during the 1980’s found that 27% of Christian pastors admitted to having extra-marital affairs. If these men have laid hands on their parishioners, then their impurity would have been imparted.

Satanists In The Church
___________________
“DESTRUCTION OF CHRISTIAN CHURCHES” — was written by a lady named Elaine who co-authored the book with Doctor Brown. Elaine was at one time, one of the top WITCHES in the United States. “THE BROTHERHOOD” she mentions is another name for a SATANIST organization she once was a member of. Her job as a Witch/Satanist was to infiltrate Christian churches and destroy them. She says in the book:

“We were taught a basic eight-point plan of attack that could be adapted to whatever denomina¬tion of church we were sent to. The fact that most all high-ranking Satanists regularly attend Christian churches should not be a surprise to anyone; that is, anyone who takes time to read God’s word… The incredible number of powerless, dead Christian churches in our land today is a testimony to the success of Satan’s carefully planned tactics.

Our prayer is that every Christian reading these words will go to the Lord in prayer and seek guidance as to how to fight such attacks within his or her own church.”

Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure. 1 Tim 5:22
It is quite obvious that there is a connection between the laying on of hands and sin, just as we saw in Lev 16:22. Not all God’s people live pure lives. Nor are we always immediately able to discern who is truly of the Lord and who is not. Can we personally vouch for every Christian we meet? Scenes of recklessness were evidenced through the ‘Toronto Blessing’ during the 90’s. Scores of people were allowing themselves to have ‘hands laid on them.’ This impartation manifested in a way which caused some people to bark like dogs, crow like roosters, pogo, laugh hysterically, convulse, imitate monkeys, etc. What disgrace was brought upon the name of Jesus because this phenomena was being imparted by the laying on of hands.

CHRISTIAN….. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1

Freely you have received, freely give
Matt 10:8

This commentary may be freely copied and distributed in its entirety, provided that it is not sold for financial gain.

By tru on Jun 2, 2008

It’s truly mind-boggling what is going on. The sad fact is that the Pentecostal movement began with weird and wacky things and continues down this path. They have abandoned the sufficiency of scripture for latter day delusions. How we desperately need to get back to the Word of God - www.cforu.net

By Andrew Craig on Jun 6, 2008

Thanks for the warning.

EZE 3:16 At the end of seven days the word of the LORD came to me: 17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. 18 When I say to a wicked man, `You will surely die,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.

EZE 3:20 “Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself.”

By Melissa on Jun 9, 2008

As a Christian who believes that the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power (1 Cor) I find it astonishing that so many Christians believe that what is going on in Florida is of the devil. In my Bible, God is a whole lot bigger than the devil. If thousands of Christians can worship Jesus Christ for hours on end and then the devil shows up to do all that stuff then your God is TOO small. The God of the psalms SITS enthroned on the praises of His people and INHABITS them. Yes the Bible says that false prophets will perform miraculous signs in the name of Jesus just like the magicians did in the day of Moses. But since when has the devil had power over death to raise the dead? If Jesus is not the only one who has power over death then the Christian gospel is a waste of time for all of us. By the way none of you have mentioned your experience of performing signs and wonders that will follow those who believe.
Yes we must test the spirits, yes we must heed the warning not to be deceived, but we must also take into account Jesus warning that those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit are in serious trouble - and Jesus speaks that warning (Matt 12 )to the Pharisees who are suggesting that his power is coming from the devil!
Seek God with care.

By Helen on Jun 12, 2008

Helen, like many Christian believers, and actually I include the TV pundits on GOD TV here - who do not swallow the signs and wonders movement wholesale, you put before us warning texts and scripture & the one about blaspheming the Holy Spirit is risible. I have been fully baptised in the H.S. as promised by my Lord and Savior, yet I am diametrically opposed to your perception of the Triune God whom, you say, has anointed Todd Bentley & sees no wrong in his chosen apostle of the last days, though his signs and wonders are quite extreme to say the least. There is much more I could say, but - please have a look at the ministry of David Hathaway (Prophetic Vision) who is to my mind and spirit a great and wonderful man of God ministering in Russia and eastern Europe. Strangley enough he does not, that I can remember, ever ‘raise the dead’ so is he a lesser man than Todd? Or - tell me this anyone, is there one, just one authenticated case of a human being actually raised from the state of death that anyone can quote. Hearsay is not enough, and I find this so strange that it seems necessary to raise the dead? No, this latest move is satanically driven, and yes healings may take place by and through the power of Demon Angels, but the greater prize for which Satan is willing to lose some perceptible ground, is the One World religious order as prophesied, and moving this on to welcome the anti-Christ. Actually the Spirit of God tells me that Todd B. is, like John the Baptist, the harbinger of a greater one yet to come - I’m wating to see!
Abraham UK

By Abraham on Jun 13, 2008

Abraham, as you say, time will tell. Sadly many Christians dismissed the move of God in Toronto as being of the devil (see above). And yet, as an example, from the outpouring of God’s power in Toronto, into the life of Heidi Baker, over 6000 churches have been planted in Mozambique and literally millions have been saved. Thousands of orphans have been cared for etc and the dead are raised. Perhaps all this was also ground that the devil was willing to lose for some greater purpose!?
Also, you have credited me with saying things I didn’t. In no way did I suggest that any man was ‘lesser’ than Todd Bentley - in fact, ironically, I made no personal comments about him at all. I merely pointed out that many who are dishing out a lot of unloving and rather vitriolic criticism in the name of Christ are not doing the signs and wonders that Jesus says will follow those who believe. Armchair critics have always been two a penny. Of course there are many other Christians who are ‘doing the stuff’. None of us are greater or lesser. Also I am not sure why you ASSUME that ‘God sees no wrong in his chosen apostle’. I am sure if God was looking for it he would, as we (including Todd) are all sinners but luckily God looks at the good instead. To suggest that if something is of God then it must all be perfect then means we are all in trouble and capable of nothing. Isn’t that what mercy is about, using the imperfect to bring about His purposes? Until anyone can suggest how the devil could work such incredible miracles that are now being backed up by medical testimony on the back of such heartfelt praise and wonder for JESUS, I remain persuaded that God is pouring out His power in a new and fresh way. And as has always been the case throughout biblical history, the harshest criticism and the greatest skepticism comes from the people of God themselves.

By Helen on Jun 13, 2008

Helen, you have a tremendous philosophical view: world class. I would hope to employ you to write a speech for me if I ever enter politics. However, I suggest you go and re-read your Bible until you understand in a greater depth more about God’s “unchanging” character and then you will be able to discern clearly. “You must distinguish between the holy and the common, between the unclean and the clean..” Lev 10:10-11. One more time!!! READ YOUR BIBLE… God Bless you.

By tru on Jun 14, 2008

For some interesting articles …. go to the following

http://cid-c66bf83880421782.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public?uc=1&lc=1033

By Anonymous on Jun 14, 2008

Hi tru.
Thanks for your comment. As an ex-satanist you are clearly passionate to avoid any further deception and I commend you for that. You are obviously unconvinced by my Bible literacy - I am not going to attempt to persuade you otherwise; just to say that if you are interested in exploring whether this move may be of God you may find the following helpful: http://www.freshfire.ca/UserFiles/File/drGreg_biblicalperspective2008.pdf.
It is a paper written by Dr Gary S. Greig, PhD., a former Associate Professor of Old Testament and Hebrew at Regent University School of Divinity, and Senior Editor, Theology and Acquisitions for the Regal Publishing Group.
Many blessings.

By Helen on Jun 16, 2008

I am making this an impersonal comment, having read all that lies above me !
The greatest deception today are the claims by many modern prophets and apostles that huge swathes of the ‘lost’ indeed, millions are being saved and brought into the Kingdom of God. I beg to differ - am I a hard-nosed kill-joy? Never, but the scripture applicable today, which to my mind is virtually a prophecy, is this : “wide is the gate and broad the way that leads to destruction and many there be that go in thereat …because strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leads unto life and few there be that find it” (Mt. 7:13ff).
Now tell me with divine knowledge - which of course we cannot - are we sure that post Alpha and through the ministries of the modern day apostles and spiritual leaders, are ‘millions being saved’ ? Or did our Lord in foreknowledge tell us that the end time so-called harvest of souls is not what it seems - in fact it is counterfeit insofar as only God calls and draws and chooses the lost. Not Todd, not Benny, not Steve Chalke - not even Billy Graham. I can’t properly commend any author’s books, but A.W. Tozer in his book on ’sermons delivered’ offers an interesting expose almost 60 years ago on ‘false conversion’. The presentation of a weak gospel, the ecumenical Alpha course, a dilution of the harsh facts of Hell, Wrath and Sin have all made ‘becoming a Christian’ quite a cosy thing, with church now a place of entertainment, with a Loving Jesus ready to give comfort and succour to all not forgetting the half time tea and biscuits.
And my suffering brothers in China, Phillipines, Middle East - they shame us as the fight through to the ‘great prize’ that lies beyond. Any one agree with me? ……. must go my dial-up time is running out.

By Abraham UK on Jun 16, 2008

There is no sin which is beyond forgiveness.

There is no sin that prevents one from the call of God - that is simply not biblical.

Bentley has been open about his past, as well as the crime which he committed many years ago as a young teenager and drug addict, and which sent him to prison. He has not tried to hide it as is falsely asserted.

Since coming to Christ he has been redeemed, washed in the blood of the Lamb, set free, and is a completely different person. You have absolutely no right to judge him.

You claim that the healings in the above mentioned events are unbiblical – yet you give no biblical or logical reasons why these healings and deliverances from demonic activity are satanic.

Your judgements are unrighteous, and your allegations are false.

I pray the Lord would open the eyes of your heart, and that you would repent from dispersing misconceptions, slander, malicious gossip, misrepresentations, and the bearing of false witness – before you stand before God on the day of judgement where we will all have to give an account for every word spoken (or written) against others who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

By Anonymous on Jun 17, 2008

Yes, it is God who calls and saves the lost, yes it is God who heals and delivers people from sin and demonic entities. However the Bible bears out that He uses weak and faulty people to do these works. He looks at the heart while some judge by tattoos and past crimes - others judge by whether someone fits into their theological, doctrinal, methodological, cultural, or stylistic box. God’s ways are not our ways – He will use whomever He chooses.

The Bible is full of ‘weird’ things which occur on and around people when He uses them, and they too have had critics faultfinding their activities – even Jesus who was perfect. The physical manifestations in Lakeland are no different to those in revivals throughout history. The kinds of things that critics are saying about present moves of God - are very similar to the criticisms spoken against Wesley’s and other historic revivals.

As a missionary and pastor, I have done much deliverance from demonic activity in various countries in Europe and Africa over the past 25 years– and I know the difference between demonic and Holy Spirit manifestations. Those occurring while people are worshipping and being filled with the Holy Spirit in Lakeland – are simply human bodies, souls, and spirits, responding to the awesome power of God.

Bob

By Anonymous on Jun 19, 2008

I am lost for words tonight. My heart breaks for the church today. I think of Paul Mercy, our pastor at AOG in Sheffield who was so against any of this kind of thing. He loved the church and I wonder what he felt about Toronto et al.
We are in such a mess. Many who walked well once have embraced such evil. Why are we not afraid Jesus will say “depart from me, I never knew you?” Don’t we believe he is almighty God anymore? Don’t we believe he will hold us responsible? Don’t we believe teachers will be held to account for leading the sheep astray?
It would seem not.
Oh Jesus, deliver us from ourselves and our own pride. Bring us to repentance before it is too late.

By Eve on Jun 20, 2008

Bill Randles has written another article entitled “Defending the Indefensible - Todd Bentley Apologetic.”

Long ago Jacob Prasch warned that just as Satan raised up apologists for the Toronto, Rodney Howard-Browne and Pensacola scams so he would raise up an apologist for this latest scam called the “Florida Healing Revival.”

Just as it has happened with all the previous so with the present apologist, who thinks himself scholastic, they are all at best quasi and/or pseudo in their qualifications. They make themselves out to be some “great ones” when in fact they are biblically illiterate.

Your can read Bill’s article at:

http://www.christian-witness.org/pdf/DefendingtheIndefensible-ToddBentleyApologetic.pdf

BELOVED, do NOT be deceived.

By Philip L. POWELL on Jun 20, 2008

On June 27, 2008 at 8pm EST Live, we will be interviewing Doug Perry of The Fellowship of the Martyrs - www.fellowshipofthemartyrs.com in regards to him speaking out about Todd Bentley of Fresh Fire Ministries. Some of the questions we will be asking is Who is Todd Bentley and why is Doug and others speaking out about him? If you’re a Christian you don’t want to miss this eye opening show, so feel free to call in with your questions and comments about Todd Bentley.

Bednarsky Talk Radio
Hosted by: Joseph V. Bednarsky Jr.
Phone Number: (724) 444-7444
Call ID: 10285

For more info and updates visit www.joebednarsky.com

By Joe Bednarsky on Jun 21, 2008

To the False revival advocates.
Personal opinions and quoting learned people has never been the standard to judge by. Can you understand that? The Bible is the standard. Also, those wishing to paraphrase events from other revivals, eg; Wesley, Finney, etc, the Spirit of God never caused people to imitate animals; barking, clucking like chickens, and all the other weird phenomena. Why do you think he is called the HOLY spirit? In fact, please go and read your Bible and see that people behaving like this (and being drunk) is a JUDGMENT not a blessing (Nebuchadnezzar, for example).
However, just one more question? What exactly is “the” apostasy (used with the Greek article) of the last days Paul warned about just prior to the anti-christ being revealed , and why did Jesus bother to warn us about deception and false prophets?

2 Thess 2:9-12
“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”

God Bless you!

By tru on Jun 21, 2008

here’s some good reading ….!

http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/todd_bentley_apologetic.pdf

By tru on Jun 21, 2008

Yes tru you are right - it is not your opinion which is the standard for truth, neither is your definition of holiness the standard for holines

By Anonymous on Jun 22, 2008

Can somebody please answer a question for me? Some valid points have been made about the magicians in the Pharoahs’ days and Simon Magus (top) being able to counterfeit the power and wonders of God. But there was always a man of God around at the time who could do the real thing better (e.g. Moses, Peter, Paul, etc). If this is all counterfeit could somebody please refer me to those men of God who are doing the real thing with equal or more demonstrated power? Thanks

By Helen on Jun 23, 2008

It is true that there will those who do works in the name of Jesus and whom He will reject as they do not know Him. However, the following is overlooked by critics:
1) Christ is not speaking out against miracles. He is NOT saying that all those who do miracles in His name in the 21st century are false prophets.
2) The point He is making is that there will be those who do works in His name, yet have no intimate, experiential, relationship with Him. The Greek word He used for ‘know’ here is the same word used for an intimate relationship between husband and wife.
3) There is only One Person who will be able to judge whether a person who claims Christ as Lord actually has an intimate relationship with Him - and that is the Lord Jesus Christ - not critics who have not even met the person they are criticising - or at best do not know them very well. Thus we should do as the Apostle Paul and rejoice that the gospel is being preached whether from good motives or bad.
4) A personal intimate relationship with Christ will be the test for all who claim Christ as Lord - not merely those who perform miracles in His name.

4truth

By Anonymous on Jun 23, 2008

Dear Anonymous, I wish to say the following in a gentle and kind manner: Your comment 23, June does one thing. It displays your ignorance of Greek to the whole world. May I advise you to go and learn Greek for at least 2 years then you will be able to exegete more accurately.
The verb ‘know’ which is the one you used above is “ginosko” … God Bless.
The differences between ginosko (No. 1) and oida demand consideration: (a) ginosko, frequently suggests inception or progress in “knowledge,” while oida suggests fullness of “knowledge,” e. g., John 8:55, “ye have not known Him” (ginosko), i. e., begun to “know,” “but I know Him” (oida), i. e., “know Him perfectly”; 13:7,
(from Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright (c)1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

Thanks everyone for your comments … I’m done!

By tru on Jun 24, 2008

In response to Helen concerning those who are today preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ with signs and certainly with God’s blessing : may I suggest you refer to www.propheticvision.org.uk
which is the web site of David Hathaway currently ministering in Russia Eastern Europe & later this year into Europe itself. It is strange to me that few know him, and of his works in Jesus name : but surely this is a good test? His magazine ‘Prophetic Vision’ free on request always blesses me with it’s wholesomeness, but perhaps this is subjective! The only ministry I as a poor old pensioner - subscribe and donate to.

By Abraham UK on Jun 24, 2008

Dear tru,
I am well aware that the verb in question is ‘ginosko’. There are at least 7 words for ‘to know’ in New Testament Greek while in English we only employ one.

The greek ‘ginosko’ is not an intellectual knowledge - but one which is experiential and relational. It is the same verb employed in the New Testament for intimate relationship between husband and wife (see Matt 1.25; Luke 1:23) as even Vines (notwithstanding that he is not the best help for any serious Greek scholar) bears out- “The verb is also used to convey the thought of connection or union, as between man and women” (from Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

By 4truth on Jun 24, 2008

Answer to Helen’s question dated 23/8/08

MT 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Note what Jesus says before these verse also.

MT 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

By Melissa on Jun 25, 2008

Dear Philip

It is clear from reading the newsletter you sent me (26 June) - that concerning Lakeland you do not understand what you are criticising. The outpouring may appear ‘pseudo’ to you - but it is very real to those who are being healed - in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the power of the Holy Spirit and to the glory of God the Father - from all kinds of incurable diseases. It may appear ungodly to you - but not to those who by the power of the Holy Spirit, testify of more love for Jesus, a desire to see God glorified, repentance, more holiness, freedom from addictions, freedom from sinful habits, a renewed desire to read the Bible, a desire and commitment to see souls saved from hell, more love for neighbours, a compassion to help the widow and the orphan in the poorest countries, and freedom from all kinds of demonic influences. It may appear demonic to you - but not the many who have made a commitment to follow Jesus Christ as Lord for the first time - in the tent, in the streets of Lakeland, and around the world.

That you give all of the above as being a glorification to Satan - is completely ludicrous.

By Anonymous on Jun 26, 2008

Anonymous,

Fake things are real. They are not genuine. A good fake fools even the experts. It looks like the genuine article, feels like the genuine article.
Something “pseudo” is the same kind of thing. Pseudo-christianity looks very convincing to those who do not scrutinise it carefully.
Lakeland is “pseudo-christianity”. When the tests God Himself says should be applied are run, it fails big time.
It does not matter what people say or do with it. They cannot make it of God. He just does not operate that way.
False Christs (anointed ones) and false prophets are “pseudo” s in Greek.
A false christ or false prophet would have to be very real (but not genuine)to perform signs and wonders that can deceive the elect!

By Eve on Jun 26, 2008

Melissa, Jesus warns about false prophets, you are right. But He says many MORE times that we are to heal the sick, raise the dead…..’I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.’ ‘These signs will follow those who believe etc….He makes more of these comments than the warnings. Perhaps it was because it was more important?

By Helen on Jun 26, 2008

Eve,

You said ‘Lakeland is “pseudo-christianity”. When the tests God Himself says should be applied are run, it fails big time.’ What are those tests, and in what way does Lakeland fail them?

By Anonymous on Jun 26, 2008

THE SORCERY & TRANCES OF TODD BENTLEY VS. SCRIPTURE

A Response to Charges against James Sundquist for “Judging the Bride of Christ”

June 26, 2008

Open Letter to: Brian Olynick, Stephen R. Strader, Gary S. Greig, Todd Bentley and Fresh Fire Ministries Staff,

I am responding to your charges that we are “judging the Bride of Christ.” If you had bothered to read the testimonies you would see that we are not judging the Bride of the Christ, as only Jesus Christ can do that at the Bema Judgment Seat. But we are commanded to judge the teachings of anyone who claims to be part of the Bride of Christ. So in one broad stroke you have already borne false witness against us. I was expecting that at some point you would retaliate with ad homimum personal attacks, instead refuting the charges against Todd Bentley and his collaborators, with Scripture as the Apostle Paul has mandated. We are required to judge teachings and be good Bereans to test the Scriptures to see if these things be true. You have done none of this. But we will! All of my discernment colleagues have exposed Todd Bentley as a false teacher, not by some emotional appeal, but by purely comparing his teachings as well as the roots of his teachings and teachers to Scripture. When did this commandment become extinct? We are not heretic hunters. In fact, we don’t even have to hunt for them, they are in your face, published, and in constant media national and international media coverage.

Anyone can flail accusations, but if you are a Christian, you must prove your charges against us with Scripture, otherwise it is you who have become guilty of bearing false witness against a brother, which God has deemed is an abomination. If you continue to promote and defend Todd Bentley, then you become an accomplice and share in his iniquity. If you think every Christian shouldn’t judge the teachings of a so-called Christian or Christian teacher, then you are deceived. If a man calls himself a brother i.e., one of “Christ’s bride”, but brings teachings contrary to Scripture, then we are commanded to expose him and expel him from the church. The Apostle Paul commands us to name names. So we are compelled to name Stephen R. Strader, Todd Bentley, Gary S. Greig publicly for being false teachers, refusing correction or warning, and for bearing false witness against those who have exposed all of you. We are not attacking the bride, because we are part of the Bride of Christ, rather we are exposing wolves who are attacking the Bride of Christ. Todd Bentley and company are not the Bride of Christ…the Bride of Frankenstein would be a more apt description, spiritually speaking.

If you are a pastor, then you should know that. Your failure to do so and defend your own sheep from wolves in sheep’s clothing and Satan’s servants masquerading as a servant of righteousness, then you are a false shepherd and derelict in your duty to protect your flock. In this regard, I am compelled to join my colleagues and expose both you and Todd Bentley publicly on the various discernment newsletters and national radio programs we frequent, informing them that you both refuse correction and have failed to repent even upon being confronted, and represent a clear and present danger to the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I have read Todd Bentley’s defense of the female Angel Emma posted at: http://sheepyweepy.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/todd-bentley-responds-to-criticism/#comment-730

and quoted from Bentley’s site, that the angel would not necessarily be female, just appear female. Response, so now God is the author of confusion, so we are not able to discern? What biblical precedent is there for any angel (male or female) to heal? As to discernment critics needing to think outside their comfort box, I have read Jackie Alnor’s, Mike Oppenheimer’s, Gary Osbourne’s and Jacob Prasch’s demolitions of Bentley’s stronghold(s). I assure you that their comfort box is in fact Scripture itself. Is it written or is it not written? What Christians should worry about is when they are comfortable outside of the Scripture zone! If we are Christians and good Bereans, our comfort box will be that the fruit of the spirit is “self-control”, not “out-of-control”…evil shrieks are the sounds made from evil spirits coming out one someone possessed, not the sounds made by people after they are delivered or for that matter coming from saints who don’t even need deliverance or healing!

As to Bentley seeing Jesus physically, this reminds of Paul Yonggi Cho claiming he saw Jesus appear dressed up as a fireman. (Jesus wouldn’t be a fireman anyway putting fires out, rather he will be sending the fires of judgment on the earth.) Sound good that Jesus is paying us visits? Big problem! The Book of Acts; 3:21 states that Jesus Christ must physically remain in Heaven until he returns in glory when he will restore all things! Jesus Christ himself warn us in Matthew 26:23-27 (and Mark 13:21-22) that if anyone says Jesus Christ is here or there, don’t believe him or even follow after him. Jesus Christ knew people like Bentley would come along, so he made it crystal clear that he would not return to the earth until we all see the entire earth engulfed in the white lightning of his glory with the heavenly hosts following him. There will be no wondering if he came back yet for his Second Coming. There will not be a Third, fourth, 50th or thousandth coming. And no one can summon him. That constitutes conjuring spirits or sorcery. So if anyone says they saw Jesus before his final return, then they saw another Jesus. Are we to believe Jesus Christ over Todd Bentley who said he saw him? Worse, Bentley is telling his followers that they can now summon down Jesus and angels. Mike Oppenheimer reveals that according to Bob Jones, one of Bentley’s mentors, Bentley’s Lakeland Revival is supposedly part of the Third Wave following the First Wave of the Toronto Blessing, followed by the Second Wave of Pensacola. Mike Oppenheimer also points out that Paul Yonggi Cho falsely prophesied that the Pensacola Revival will last until Jesus comes, but it has been a dismal failure, completely collapsing, ship-wrecking the faith of many. Instead of revering Bob Jones, Todd Bentley should have exposed both Jones and Cho. Dr. Christian Wei, who is the director of a school which trains missionaries to take the gospel into Communist China has written an excellent documentary exposing Paul Yonggi Cho. The persecuted and martyred Church in China is already being alerted to false teachings of Paul Yonggi Cho. Dr. Wei is presently translating both of my books on the false teachings of Rick Warren into Mandarin and Cantonese languages to distribute to the underground church in China to warn them.

Dr. Christian Wei Expose on teachings of Paul Yonggi Cho:

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/cho/general.htm

Paul Yonggi Cho quotes compiled by Jim Fox:

http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=557

Mike Oppenheimer’s expose on Todd Bentley: http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/let_us_reason_alert_lakeland.htm

Even though Bentley’s chief apologist, Gary S. Greig, is an instructor at Jack Hayford’s Foursquare denomination Church on the Way, who is a Rick Warren promoter, Bentley is not yet the global clear and present danger to the church at large that Rick Warren is with his Global Peace Plan.

Gary Greig Biography:

http://www.vanguardministries.org/bio-garygreig.asp

Note from his own biography that Greig hotlinks to both Injoy Ministries and Equip, which are headed by John Maxwell who is virtually the E for Equipping in Rick Warren’s Global PEACE Plan. I expose John Maxwell’s teachings and his unholy alliance with Rick Warren in my second book on Rick Warren entitled: Rick Warren’s Global Peace Plan vs. Scriptural Teachings on Peace. The entire book is also available online at:

http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/James/Global%20PEACE%20Plan.pdf

(Once loaded, search for “John Maxwell”)

Todd Bentley’s false teachings (and Gary Greig’s defense of them) aren’t even subtle but glaring. Instead of repenting of defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit with massive and extensive tatoos all over his body and defying Scripture, Todd Bentley boastfully glories in them…a stumbling block to the “least one of these my children” and the poorest witness. Instead of repenting you (Brian Olynick) retaliate against the messengers, as though they are the enemy! No wonder the Apostle Paul said “I am now therefore the enemy because I tell you the truth”! So I must strongly rebuke all of you and pray that you repent while there is still a season to repent. So be assured we will publicly mark you and warn the church.

I had thought I was done with my own report on Todd Bentley and was ready to publish it and expose on the radio nationally and internationally when I read about Jack Hayford’s commentary on this revival which is posted on the Foursquare International website as well as at:

Jack Hayford & Foursquare International Official Statement on Todd Bentley:

http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/jack-hayford-statement-on-the-lakeland-revival-todd-bentley/

Therefore, I am now compelled to add the following commentary on Jack Hayford to this article on this “revival!”

The most glaring question I have for Dr. Jack Hayford’s formal Foursquare Church statement regarding Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revival:

“by any standard of biblical wisdom, it is far too early to assert anything on any terms…We are not called to answer for any other ministry or its report;”
is that if this is his position and that of his board of directors at Church on the Way and the Foursquare Church denomination regarding Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revival, then why did Gary Greig, one of his teaching pastors and promoters of C. Peter Wagner at his own church, the Church on the Way and Masters Seminary, publish an apologetics defense of Todd Bentley’s actions and so-called revival on the very website and church conducting the revivals? The pastor of the church, who is one of those presiding over the Lakeland Revival Stephen R. Strader even directed me to Gary Greig as the apologist defending Todd Bentley. For Jack Hayford to say that we are not called to answer for any other ministry is nothing short of staggering. All Christians are called expose the deeds of darkness and false teachings, whether in their own church or a church down the road. To refrain from speaking out against a wolf in the sheepfold is nothing short of dereliction of duty of a pastor and shepherd! And if this is true, then why does Hayford participate in Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven hostile take-overs of other churches and denominations which most certainly do intervene in those churches affairs of other churches, expelling those who oppose Rick Warren’s Global Peace Plan.

Second problem with Hayford’s defense or failure to speak out against Todd Bentley is his invoking Gamaliel. Gamaliel’s statement in the Book of Acts was not prescriptive, but rather descriptive. There is no evidence that Paul took or used the advice that if it is not of God it will go away after his conversion. In fact, Paul taught the opposite as evidence by his fear of what would happen to the Church of Ephesus after he died. The Apostles taught that things would get worse and worse (exactly what we see in Todd Bentley). If what Gamaliel said is true, then Roman Catholicism and Islam would have long disappeared, but both of these religions boast 2+ billion followers. It is precisely because the apostate church did follow Gamaliel’s advice that in great part produced the fix we are in today. Following Hayford’s kind of unwise counsel is the same kind of advice to refrain from intervention in both the Toronto Blessing and Pensacola nightmare’s in the Assemblies of God and Vineyard. We still recovering from this nightmare because these so-called watchmen on the wall who became spectators and worse participants. Had George Wood stepped in at the beginning this nightmare might have been averted in the Assemblies of God. But what does George Wood do in the case of the latest Rosemary’s Baby? He issues a statement on June 5, 2008 that does nothing to condemn Todd Bentley’s teachings. Had he condemned Thomas Trask, the previous General Superintendent of the Assemblies of God, a destroyer of the brethren and God-fearing AG pastors, and promoter of much the very same false teachings promoted by Bentley, the Assemblies of God denomination might not be in the state of apostasy that it finds itself. Had Jack Hayford and George Wood intervened in the case of Rick Warren’s teachings and programs, that plague might have been averted in the Foursquare Church and Assemblies of God, respectively. But what does Jack Hayford do? He promotes Rick Warren and Richard Foster who cite some of the same contemplative prayer mystics that are the inspiration behind Todd Bentley.

Speaking of Rick Warren, here is a update on him. I just received a letter from a good brother in South Africa. A Christian broadcast journalist stated on the radio there that Rick Warren is a false teacher. She has now received a threatening phone call from an attorney threatening her with a slander lawsuit. But this is not surprise because I was threatened with legal action by Richard Foster’s Renovare organization. In the U.S. a major network Christian radio station censored the longest standing national conservative Christian radio show if they ever again said anything negative about Rick Warren…doesn’t matter if what they said was true. The New York City Leadership group which was recently formed will be launching major events this Fall at Madison Square Garden promoting Rick Warren and Ken Blanchard (also exposed in my second book on Rick Warren) and his teachings…EVENT SPONSORS:

Buttafuoco & Associates

Greg Laurie NJ/NY 2008 Crusade So BEWARE: Here is their website for proof of sponsorship:
http://www.nycleadershp.com
&
http://copgny.org/316776.ihtml

So beware of Jack Hayford, Tom Trask, George Wood and those I have cited in this document. You don’t even need to use the present documentation of events or fruit in Lakeland Florida Outpouring to demolish this stronghold, though there is plenty going on to already rightfully oppose it. In addition to the fruit of this thorn bush, you can judge him as well as this tree by the root system which is riddled with false teachers and teachings that Todd Bentley is still touting to his audiences.

Finally, one of the most troubling statements of Hayford’s official position is this statement:

“With time, whatever is taking place in Lakeland and through activities issuing from its happenings will either verify or discredit the source of the manifestations.” (More Gamaliel reasoning)

Comment: Give the wolf time…if given enough time, it can destroy the whole flock. Give leaven enough time it will leaven the whole lump. Give the siren calls of the harlot enough time, she will deceive the multitudes.

Therefore, Jack Hayford is one of the least credible people one should trust. Here is an expose why you should give no credence to Jack Hayford in the first place:

James Sundquist expose on Jack Hayford:

http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/jack_hayford_expose.htm

Mike Oppeneheimer, Director of Let Us Reason’s expose on Todd Bentley:

http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/let_us_reason_alert_lakeland.htm

Jacob Prash’s expose on Gary S. Grieg entitled:

A Review Of Gary S Greig’s Pseudo-Scholarly Apologetic For The Unbiblical Antics Of Todd Bentley And The Lakeland, Florida Sequel To The Failed Revivals Of Kansas City, Toronto, And Pensacola,

is now posted internationally on Be Alert and Moriel Ministries at: http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/review_of_gary_greigs_apologetic.htm

For Todd Bentley to claim he had a conversation with the Apostle Paul makes him a necromancer, forbidden in Scripture. Todd Bentley is not conducting true worship or true revival but seances. He is exploiting the masses with stories he has made up exactly how Scripture describes people like him in 2 Peter 2:3.

You have made a mockery of Christ and his Bride, and compounded your sin by attacking those saints who have exposed you for this circus. What a reproach! So rest assured, we will sound the alarm on His Holy Hill about you! If anyone had wondered what signs and wonders would be performed to deceive even the elect if that were possible, you are now witnessing it!

Final Warning:

2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:

2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds

Sincerely in Christ,

James Sundquist

Director

Rock Salt Publishing

http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/False-Teachers.html

By James Sundquist on Jun 26, 2008

I think this previous question is worth repeating:

You said ‘Lakeland is “pseudo-christianity”. When the tests God Himself says should be applied are run, it fails big time.’ What are those tests, and in what way does Lakeland fail them?

I think 1 John 4 is a good place to start as it addresses the issue of discerning false prophets. “This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God” 1 John 4:2

I wonder whether Satan does a lot more harm through well meaning Christians who criticize one another in the name of discernment (which encourages disunity and dissension in the body of Christ) than he would through performing “false miracles” through a man where many people are drawn closer to Jesus.

The longest prayer by Jesus recorded in scripture is focussed on unity amongst believers. Maybe he knew that it would be much more difficult for us to focus on maintaining unity within the church than it is for us to focus our time and energies on maintaining “doctrinal purity”.

Maybe we should spend more time meditating on and praying the words that Jesus prayed in John 17. What are your thoughts on 1 John 4? Is Satan’s power so strong that people who come to Jesus asking for a fish end up receiving a snake? (Matt 7:10)

By Andrew on Jun 26, 2008

There are many posts all over the internet. It would be possible to write a book on the subject there is so much evidence. If you have to ask what the tests are may I ask if you have read the Bible lately?
However,
If a person claiming to be a prophet predicts something that does not happen:

But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
Deut 18:20-22 (ANIV)

Todd and his associates have frequently done this, so they are not prophets, but impostors.

That test is simple.

There are others regarding prophecy, but they fail at the first hurdle. By God’s definition, they are not prophets of His. For instance his visions vary tremendously when he describes them at different times. e.g. his descriptions of Jesus.

this is pseudo-prophecy.

There is no need to go beyond that really.

However, Todd breaks the 10 commandments, he lies about when he got his tattoos.

Todd claims to have spoken with Paul. Last time I read church history he was definitely dead. Likewise Sundar Singh (someone else he says he has met)

10 There shall not be found among you anyone who m…or one who calls up the dead. Deuteronomy 18:10-11 (NKJV)

Todd also promotes the unscriptural teaching of William Branham. That is well documented.

Todd gets strange unbiblical teaching from Angels. (He even saw a female angel - definitely unbiblical.) He says they bestow “healing mantles” on believers. The Holy Spirit gives gifts and Jesus gives gifts. Nowhere does Scripture say angels give mantles.

There’s so much more… the violence, lack of self control, no sign of the fruit of the Spirit, etc.

The acid test, I suppose, is the Berean test - they read Scripture to see if what Paul said was true.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Tim 3:16-17 (ANIV)

There are descriptions of godly qualities and ungodly ones throughout the Bible.

Todd and the leaders at Lakeland do not measure up to what God says prophets, leaders, teachers and apostles should be, so they fail the test.

By Eve on Jun 27, 2008

I have just seen this video. SOmeone sent it me on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUTCWLoD4-4

How can anyone defend this man and say he is a man of God?

This is one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen. This is abuse of the worst kind.

By Eve on Jun 27, 2008

Yes- there are certainly many slanderous accusations, faultfinding and malicious gossip all over the internet. This is not in the spirit of the Bereans who listened to Paul with an open heart and mind then checked out his teaching with scripture – but more in accordance with the suspicious minds and closed hearts of the Thessalonians. The prolific negative criticism is based on slander, misconceptions, and malicious gossip – as well as out of context snippets on u-tube. I see the one you linked to has captions – which is unnecessary as one can make up one’s own mind without the influence of accusations. I can’t say I agree with the method – but then I was not the one having to hear from God in the situation. The guy got up smiling, and the person who wrote the captions provides no evidence that he was harmed. If you are concerned why not write to Fresh Fire on their website http://www.freshfire.ca/ and ask about him – it would not be surprising if you find he is one of the many who has been healed of cancer. They will provide you with all the information they possibly and legally can, including doctors reports, so that you can do your own investigation – that is if you are really interested in the truth.
The same goes for Todd’s tattoos – he has publicly stated that if one has any questions then send him an e-mail and ask him directly and that he would be happy to answer them and explain, instead of just taking all the allegations floating around the internet as gospel. Bearing false witness also breaks the 10 commandments.
Which are the specific false prophecies that Todd gave?

We should also bear in mind that the nature of the prophetic gift in the OT is completely different to that of the NT. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians explains that as Christians we should all eagerly desire the gift of prophecy. He also explains that we see in part and prophesy in part – which means that Jesus is the only perfect prophet who ever lived.

There is a major difference between the occultic practice of calling up the dead, and being taken to heaven in a trance - which is Biblical.

It is a false accusation that ‘Todd also promotes the unscriptural teaching of William Branham’ – he and others do not go along with everything that Branham taught. However do you know anyone whose doctrine is perfect? There is also much exaggeration about Branham’s teachings.

There is a difference between the daily self control which comes by walking in the Spirit – and being under the control of the Spirit in an encounter with God. There are many examples throughout the Bible of people being overcome by the Lord in an encounter with Him.

You can only judge fruit of the Spirit by knowing someone well.

Todd may fail your test – but not the test of 1 John 4.

By Anonymous on Jun 28, 2008

As I said, it is God’s test. He preaches what he gets from angels, and it is at odds with scripture.

Ultimately, the decision about whether you believe and apply God’s word is yours and yours alone.

Are you willing to risk your eternal destination on it?

By Eve on Jun 28, 2008

Eve, my eternal destination hangs on my faith and relationship with Jesus Christ as Lord.

Bentley does not testify that he gets what he preaches from angels - but God the Holy Spirit. Angels have sometimes been messengers just as they have appeared to people throughout the scriptures - it is biblical.

By Anonymous on Jun 28, 2008

Angels control finances according to Todd Bentley. Definitely not Biblical
http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=40&pid=954&bid=

He quotes the following as proof:
And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.
Phil 4:19 (ANIV)

Where’s the angel?

In http://www.etpv.org/2003/angho.html

Todd “teaches” about angels. Not much of this is scriptural either. We are supposed to preach and the Holy Spirit saves through Jesus. Angels have nothing to do with this process contrary to what Todd suggests.

He also said Emma was female even though he denies it now, he actually said God referred to “her”. Is he saying , by denying it, that God did not tell the truth, if it was God (which I sincerely doubt)?

“She glided into the room, emitting brilliant light and colors. Emma carried these bags and began pulling gold out of them. Then, as she walked up and down the aisles of the church, she began putting gold dust on people. “God, what is happening?” I asked. The Lord answered: “She is releasing the gold, which is both the revelation and the financial breakthrough that I am bringing into this church. I want you to prophecy that Emma showed up in this service - the same angel that appeared in Kansas City-as a sign that I am endorsing and releasing a prophetic spirit in the church.”

Todd may have removed this from his website, making it harder for his followers to check his words,(he has not repented of the error, just hidden it) but those who have seen it still have copies on the web.

BTW what is a prophetic spirit? Prophecy comes by the Spirit of God.

By Eve on Jun 29, 2008

Perhaps it is worth bearing in mind that no-one can be proved ‘true’ or ‘false’ just by the Bible. The experts of the day knew all there was to know about the scriptures and what they said and yet they failed to recognise that Jesus was the son of God (John 5:39). Hence the need for the Spirit to guide us into all truth (John 16:13). For all those who aren’t doctrinal experts isn’t it a comfort that Jesus said that you must become like little children in order to enter the kingdom of God (Matt 18). Children who have not been hurt are neither suspicious nor cynical. Never did Jesus rebuke anyone for not knowing enough scripture, only for knowing so much that they missed the real deal.

By Helen on Jun 29, 2008

Helen, at least we agree we agree on something.

By Anonymous on Jun 29, 2008

Helen,
Jesus didn’t rebuke people for knowing the scriptures, but he rebuked them for not applying them.

Wayne

By Wayne Capell on Jun 29, 2008

Wayne, I wonder how many of the experts today, some of whom are posting all over the internet are applying what they know from the scriptures to heal the sick, raise the dead and cast out demons?

By Helen on Jun 30, 2008

The bible is full of warnings about deception, false teachers and false prophets and the constant need for discernment. In 2Thessalonians 2:15 Paul advises the brethren in Christ to …..”stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or by our epistle.” In 1Thessalonians 5:21 he says “JUDGE all things: hold fast to that which is good.” In Galatians 1:8 Paul says “though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”
The simplicity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is under attack and the only way to avoid the delusion which God will send (2Thess:11,12)to those who do not love the truth is by faithful commitment to the Word of God and the total rejection of all that is false or even questionable. The Gospel of Salvation through Jesus Christ is simple but distinctively revealed and confirmed to us in the Holy Scriptures alone.

Wayne

By Wayne Capell on Jun 30, 2008

With all due respect Wayne, Todd Bentley is preaching a far simpler gospel that looks like the book of Acts than a number of posts on these sites which require you to have a theology degree.

By Helen on Jun 30, 2008

Why is it that when reference to Christians is made to fulfilling the commands to heal the sick etc… the reply is always about deception and false prophets? This will not make the command go away!
With all due respect the gospel that is being preached in Florida is far more simple and resembles far more of the gospels and the book of Acts than much of what is posted on these sites that require a theology degree to be considered Biblically literate.

By Helen on Jun 30, 2008

Helen, your comments are based on pure conjecture and “wishful thinking”. My observations, information, knowledge and scriptural background make it impossible for me to agree with your opinions.

No biblical christian will ever try to stop you from praying for the sick to be healed or to seek gifts of healing in a biblical manner. Biblical christians love to see people set free by the power of God but only HIS way is acceptable to HIM and only HIS way has eternal value.
Not only is the bible full of warnings about false and lying signs and wonders but many people (Kurt Koch for example) provide information about the dire consequences of accepting spiritual manifestations from false sources, in other publications.

God always intended spiritual gifts to function in support of and following the faithful preaching of HIS word NEVER in competition with HIS WORD. They are not an alternative to the Word of God nor a means of vindicating claims to special personal “anointings”, but are designed to work in conjunction with the faithfull preaching of HIS WORD. HIS WAY is always consistent with HIS WORD.

Falsehood, however, is always falsehood, apostasy is always apostasy, deception is always deception and scriptural warnings to avoid falsehood, apostasy and deception dominate the scriptures. These warnings will persist until the Judgement Day.

The simple gospel of Jesus Christ is being perverted by people who hold the simple, biblical gospel in contempt and want to pursue an alternative, experiential, signs and wonders based alternative. These false Gospels have no other basis than the subjective expression of experience and the false teachings of “anointed ones” or as the bible says “false christs.”

The Apostle Paul says, in 2 Timothy 3;16, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

False gospels minimise the absolute necessity of conformity to the Word of God as revealed to us in the Scriptures. They are based on subjective expressions of experience and the unscriptural, anti-scriptural and existential teachings of “anointed ones” and are to be wholeheartedly rejected if we are to find favour with the God of the Bible on the Judgement Day. I must warn you as I try to warn everybody that the simplicity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is under attack - and the only way to avoid the delusion which God will send (2Thess:11,12 ….”for this reason God shall send strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness) to those who do not love the truth is by faithful commitment to the Word of God, holding fast to that which is good and totally rejecting all that is false or even questionable by biblical standards.

The Gospel of Salvation through Jesus Christ is simple but distinctively revealed and confirmed to us in the Holy Scriptures alone.
Depart from the Truth of the Word of God, [which John 14:6 reveals to us as Jesus the Christ whose attributes and teachings are revealed to us in the Holy Scriptures alone] at your extreme peril.

Wayne

By Wayne Capell on Jun 30, 2008

Wayne, those you are criticising also are faithful to the Bible and Jesus as Christ, Saviour, and Lord.

4truth

By 4truth on Jun 30, 2008

4truth, if they are faithful to the Bible and Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord my words are a great comfort to them. In fact they know them already without me even saying them.

Let God speak for Himself and forget the vain philosophies of men.

Timothy 2:15 says “Study to show thyself approved unto God, A workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

1 Thessalonians 5:21 states “Judge all things: hold fast to that which is good.”
Conversely REJECT ALL THAT IS CONTRARY TO THE WORD OF GOD.

In Galatians 1: 10,11 and 12 Paul says ‘….do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

2 Thessalonians 2: 15 ‘….stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or by our epistle.”

2 Thessalonians 2; 11,12 ‘….for this cause God shall send strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrrighteousness.”

This is the word of God for those who refuse to accept the truth and dilute it with false teaching and human philosophies and experiential nonsense.

Argue your philosophies and emotional nonsense all you like but the God of the bible is the one we all have to convince on the Judgement Day. Only His Truth will count on that day. The half baked philosophies of “anointed ones” will not be able to save anyone.

Depart from the revealed Word of God at your extreme peril.

Wayne

By Wayne Capell on Jun 30, 2008

Who is departing from the revealed word of God Wayne?

By 4truth on Jun 30, 2008

Those who are NOT following it faithfully. (whatever your name is)

By Wayne Capell on Jun 30, 2008

Correct

By 4truth on Jun 30, 2008

We have left an AoG church we had attended for 30 years where the Pastor declared that he had received an “anointing” by impartation. The last sermon he preached at which my wife and I were present was to “explain the anointing to people who did not understand it.” He informed me that he was not interested in bible doctrine but was only interested in his anointing. He told the church he was not much of a preacher and that if we wanted to hear preaching we should go and listen to Benny Hinn. He had been increasingly engaging in socio-political comment and activities.
His youth pastor told my daughter that they were not interested in checking out whether Benny Hinn was scripturally correct either as both he and they were too busy building the kingdom. Anything that attracts people in numbers must be good therefore checking teachings out against the canon of scripture is a waste of time for busy kingdom builders according to these people.
Generally speaking, having a Pastor who has the “anointing” means that they are not subject to biblical accountability nor are their teachings or more appropriately directions to the church membership to be subject to testing by biblical standards.
The horror of these developments is highlighted by even superficial reference to Holy Scripture.
See for example 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Judge all things: hold fast to that which is good.
2 Thessalonians 2:15 …”stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or by our epistle.”

By Wayne Capell on Jun 30, 2008

We must indeed judge all things and hold onto that which is good. People being healed in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, repenting of thier sin, believing in Him for salvation, and being hungry for God - is all good. This fits with the tradition of scripture.

By 4truth on Jun 30, 2008

I am absolutely appalled by the abhorrent attitude and viciousness of those who believe themselves to be worldwide church watchdogs and set up websites for the main purpose of “exposing” anyone who is in ministry but does not fit in with their understanding/interpretation of scripture … who commissioned you to have authority over the entire body of Christ, that everyone everywhere is answerable to you?

Using Todd Bentley only as an example (because he’s the hot name at the moment), one has to be rather UNdiscerning to think that anyone who cries out and urges his hearers to cry out to God for forgiveness of sin, for holiness, for God to purge us in order for us to be soul-winners is of the devil. I don’t think Satan is even that stupid to use someone to give glory to Jesus every 10 minutes and to stir people from every nation to thirst and hunger after God and His Kingdom.

It may just be a good idea for all you heresy-hunters to watch all 4 hours of the televised Lakeland outpouring every night rather than 2 minutes of a U-tube out-of-context-clip which can be captioned to say just about anything you like. If you can do that and still keep your tainted opinion then fine…that’s your opinion. I say “tainted” because I truly believe you cannot see passed Todd Bentley’s outward appearance and past which has been forgiven and forgotten by God anyway. But just like a pack of dogs who love digging up rubbish, it’s fitting with the vitriol we see on various “anti” websites.

By Suzy on Jul 1, 2008

Suzy,
I tried watching once, and that was what first convinced me this guy was bad news. I don’t need to see any more of the awful stuff that goes on there.

They preach another Christ. According to Bob Jones, Christ must enter the Holy of Holies every year to offer His Blood - Hebrews says He died once for all. This Jesus they teach is not the one I know. John tells us plainly, what to do in these circumstances:

Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
2 John 1:8-11 (KJV)

We have not taken this upon ourselves, or lightly. God tells us to have nothing to do with these men.

Jude tells us to snatch people from the fire. How do we do that? Certainly not by pretending everything is fine. We speak out.

By Eve on Jul 3, 2008

TODD BENTLEY~ FELLOWSHIP OF THE Ring~ EMMA – O IS INFURIATED
MY LORD, did we witness a NEW AGE INITIATION RITE ON WORLD CHRISTIAN TV?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgYtobeizJw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SgByE0pX1M Serpentine Spirit- Kundalini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtVGxJU-j2I&NR=1
EMMA-O TOOK ALL HER ANGELS AND LEFT. . . SLAMMING HER DEMONIC STAR GATE TO THE THIRD HEAVENS DRIVING Bentley from her.
And all the king’ horses and all the kings’ men couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again. The entire world crazy GodTV and Bentley couldn’t call them back. THAT’LL TEACH THEM to snub EMMA O is, as the King of Hell and Judge of the souls of men . . . EMMA –O, the ruler of the underworld . . . EMMA-O: King of Hell. He lives the good life in a large castle covered in gold, silver, pearls and jewels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIUOwfBEYfk&feature=related
THE ANGELS ARE GONE AND THE MAGIC PORTALS CLOSED TO THE THIRD HEAVENS TO TODD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKA_X1zxOQc&feature=related
What to do. . . what to do? Todd flashed his El Diablo signs, they did not work. The angels were gone. His power vanished. The disgraced EMMA – O had suffered a fatal wound visible to people on this side of the veil. Wendy’s grandiose vision that Jesus would show up on June 6, 08, never happened. Turns out the voice that spoke “the word” was bogus, “it” lied ~ the chariot of the King never came through the Lakeland magical portal.
“I’m not done yet,” Todd chaotically whined. ”Call down the fire, Call down the fire, angels, angels”, he hysterically chanted. . . “Maybe the door is open somewhere else . . . God I’m asking, send the angels…. Holy Ghost Come Down … Fire, fire, fire ” . . . Also it is very ironic how Todd Bentley and his affiliates are constantly pleading for “fire to come down upon them” and even talking about photos that show fire upon people in their services. Well the only fire from God is JUDGMENT in hell fire.
”Liberty come . . . I love Liberty,” Todd frenziedly prayed, calling for his new angel Liberty that he had unleashed after he banished EMMA-O.
PETER WAGNER ~ THE WINDS OF CHANGE
Peter Wagner’s web site said, “This is a year to open the gates. Most of us think that the gate is a physical place that will appear in front of you. However, the first gate we must go through is Heaven’s Gate! This is where we enter boldly into the Throne Room and receive super-abounding grace so we can leap through the place of the “new” in the earth! Consequently, on we will be convening a gathering in Dearborn to open the gate of change to realign the nations. Speakers include Peter Wagner, Chuck Pierce, Barbara Yoder, Pat Francis, and Cindy Jacobs”.

By pat holliday on Jul 3, 2008

Eve, Bentley believes and preaches the same Christ I do. The Jesus who came in the flesh, was crucified for our sins, buried , and raised from the dead - the Christ of the Bible - the same Lord Jesus Christ that Paul preached. The only name by which we can enter into a relationship with God the Father. There is only one Jesus like that - not another. He is the same yesterday, today , and forever - who still heals and sets people free. I’m sorry - but you are barking up the wrong tree.

Well said Suzy.

By Anonymous on Jul 3, 2008

Thank you Eve.
What you say is largely the final word on how God would have us relate to the false teachers and false prophets that seem to be everywhere. May I encourage you to NEVER be intimidated by the falsehood and deception that is all around on every side and to go on using scripture to defeat the enemy right up until the judgement day. God bless you Eve.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 4, 2008

Thanks for your comments Suzy. It seems the only apt response to slander is a rebuke rather than a debate.

By Rob Truss on Jul 4, 2008

I do not understand what you mean Rob.

In law, defamation (also called vilification, slander, and libel) is the communication of a statement that makes a FALSE claim, expressively stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. Slander refers to a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism. Related to defamation is public disclosure of private facts which arises where one person reveals information which is not of public concern, and the release of which would offend a reasonable person.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 4, 2008

Wayne

What you have described exactly reflects the material on websites such as this one when making false accusations against Christians, such as Todd Bentley.

By Rob on Jul 4, 2008

I see no biblical error with the following open and humble letter from Todd Bentley.

Dear Friends,

Thank you for taking the time to read this letter and for hearing my heart on some of the issues that seems to be causing division and some confusion in the Body of Christ. Throughout the Old and New Testaments and in every age following, as far as I can determine, the Lord has given His people dreams and visions, signs and wonders, heavenly encounters and divine supernatural experiences that, for the most part, we cannot understand with our intellect. In the spiritual realm, God isn’t limited by our thinking!
God’s ways of communicating with us hasn’t changed from the beginning of time, although the Bible is the mainstay of His communication to us in today’s Church. Sometimes pictures say a lot, though, and the Lord does speak to us through visions and dreams, just as He spoke that way to the people of ancient days and just as He has promised us that He would in the Last Days. God says, “I am the LORD, I change not” (Malachi 3:6).
Whenever God pours out His Spirit, dreams and visions become integral to the move of God and are especially a Last Days phenomena according to Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:17. God-given dreams and visions are often because of the gracious outpouring of the Holy Spirit. They fall into the category of the miraculous when supernatural revelations are imparted. Ezekiel, the prophet operated in a continuous miracle ministry in the revelatory realm.
Some people desire Scripture for every manifestation of God - for every detail of every God-given, Holy Spirit inspired vision, dream, encounter, or demonstration of the supernatural realm of God manifested on the earth. While I firmly believe that we’re to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I don’t believe we’re to defend divine manifestations of God, because they are proof within themselves of the Gospel, wherever the Word of God is sent forth. Discern yes, but defend, no. Consider that many of the “greater” things that Christ said we would do hadn’t even been done yet and weren’t recorded in the Bible.

On Visions

While it’s good and right and biblical to test the spirits to see if they are of God, it’s vital to realize that just because a type of vision or a sign is not listed in Scripture, that it’s unscriptural, to be discounted, or false. For instance: If you dream of Jesus visiting you, and in your dream, Jesus, the Man, was the most handsome man you’d ever seen, would the fact that the Bible described Him as having no beauty or majesty to attract us to Him, nothing in His appearance that we should desire Him (Is. 53:2b), discount your dream as being scriptural or genuine, relative, and of God?
Just as no two people are alike, no two experiences are alike. Guaranteed, the Bible doesn’t list the details of each dream, each encounter, or everything that God has, does, and will eventually reveal to His people. It doesn’t record every detail of every dream, or everything someone has seen in the spirit realm, or on earth for that matter. Nor does it record every possible miracle, but it does say that nothing is impossible with God (see Luke 1:37; Matt. 17:20). We have no account of miracles like amputated limbs growing back, but the absence of this is Scripture doesn’t mean that such a miracle unbiblical.
If a person is of the mind-set that everything spiritual that happens or manifests in our lives has to be found in Scripture to be divine and of God, then that standard or belief would have to be applied to every area of one’s life. God responds to each one of us in different ways so the specific way He speaks to any of His children should not become a doctrine of correctness.
Someone once said that limiting revelation is like trying to fit an ocean into a cup. God is continually restoring truth and light to His Church. Therefore, we should place no limit on further revelation. To have a view that everything that happens in someone’s life because of God’s loving response to us as His children should be listed in the Bible or else it’s wrong or evil, is like saying that Jesus, who is the Word represents a list of do’s and don’ts. Jesus is a Person who, through intimacy and relationship, we perceive and understand by the Holy Spirit what is good and what is evil. If Jesus listed for us everything that we needed to know, then knowing Him would have become an option. It’s in knowing Him, who is The Word that we enter into what He has prepared for us.
To apply doctrine to the response of God in our lives is wrong. For someone to assume that something that happens to us isn’t of God because it’s not in his or her doctrine or knowledge of Jesus is, in my opinion, to grieve the precious Holy Spirit. I believe each experience is unique and tailored to the individual’s background, experiences, circumstances, capacity to receive, and personal relationship with Jesus. The experience is usually one that a person can relate to. The Lord meets us where we’re at and often shows us things in a way that gets our attention, in a way that we, as individuals, uniquely understand and relate to.
Some are questioning the soundness of my visitation from Jesus while I was in Redding, California. I stated in an interview that it was as though He came into this realm and I saw Him as I would imagine Jesus would be with the disciples on the Earth, as the Son of man, a humble servant as He walked the earth, not in His resurrection glory. The purpose of this experience was for God to impart to me His supernatural peace in my life. God chooses, in His infinite wisdom, to reveal Himself in different ways, and in various aspects so that people can understand, relate, and even receive Him. Why do some think it so bad if God wills to come in His grace and reveal Himself to us in whatever manner He chooses?

Focus on the Revelation

This can be drastically different from one person to another. What’s important, however, are not the details of, for instance, a vision, but how it points to Jesus, the revelation gleaned, what we learn from the experience, how we apply it to our life, and/or speak it into the life of another, and how it draws us closer to Him, for His name’s sake. Because one person may not be able to relate to a dream, vision, or experience of another, he or she may attribute this to the devil or to the flesh, or hallucinations, for example. I’m sure many have seen strange things happen in our meetings - things that puzzle, things that aren’t normal to them, but understand - God doesn’t seek approval for how He manifests through His people or in signs and wonders.
The Bible is full of visions, encounters, signs, wonders, miracles, and manifestations that people have experienced, some of which may be downright hard for many to wrap their minds around, let alone believe it could happen today. Again, it’s all relative to each individual, their experiences, and backgrounds, and with what they have learned through intimacy with Christ Jesus, and what they have received as a love response from God. I spend hours and hours at the feet of Jesus and perhaps the next person doesn’t.
As I can recall, Smith Wigglesworth once had a vision of Satan. He’d been sleeping in bed during a thunderstorm that had rattled the windows and made the lights flicker. Suddenly he saw a vision of Satan standing at the foot of his bed. However, he wasn’t in the least bit disturbed because he had first-hand knowledge and experience of God’s protective nature and understood the power of the name of Jesus. “Oh, it’s just you,” he said to the devil, and turned over and went back to sleep.
If this were a new, breaking story today, how would people receive or respond to the account of what he saw? It would all be relative to what you know or have experienced relating to demons, or the knowledge that you have about the authority that you have as a blood-bought child of God, even to the church climate. If you’ve never cast out a demon from your life and seen him run at the mere mention of the blood of Christ Jesus, you wouldn’t understand.

Angels

Likewise, if I say that I had a vision of an angel, or encountered one or even spoke with one, but you haven’t doctrinally or experientially, come to terms with the reality of angels being in our midst, then you may not attribute it as valid. You may even tag me as someone who worships angels, seeks them for counsel, ministers under the power of, or misrepresents them in some way. In the case of the angel called “Emma,” who I described as having mother-like nurturing qualities, some have automatically assumed that my doctrine is that I believe in female angels. This has never been the case! For whatever reason God chose to show me this angel in a female persona, He did. This isn’t to say that the angel was female. Angels are spirit and appear in many forms. Perhaps that’s the form God chose this angel to take for the purpose of the revelation He gave me. They are spirit beings of light, created out of God’s glory, without gender, and appear in whatever form God chooses to send them to us.
Let me throw this out there for you to think about. If someone encounters an angel on earth that has come in the form of a female human being, and even refers to the angel as a “she,” it doesn’t raise eyebrows. We know they must sometimes appear to us in human form because the Bible tells us not to forget to entertain strangers, “for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels” (Hebrews 13:2). There is biblical precedent for angels appearing in human form in the example of the two angels who came to Sodom to warn Lot before the destruction of the city in Genesis 19. They visited, had a meal, and even spent the night. Their human “form” even fooled those who tried to accost them and the angels struck them blind.
Even though they appeared as men, they are still genderless. Emma appeared to me in angelic form appearing feminine, which is not to say Emma was female or had a gender. This was the first angel I’d ever seen in feminine-like form, in this motherly nurturing type of persona that opened up a well of healings and breakthrough.
Mary, Paul, Peter, Jesus, the shepherds, and several disciples, and many Old Testament folk like Abraham, Hagar, Daniel, and others had angelic encounters and some interacted with them in conversation. That doesn’t suppose they worshiped these angelic beings or sought them out for revelation apart from God. I never summon angels directly. I do ask God to send angels to encamp around me, and others. Let it be said, that I seek only God for revelation and should He send an angel to me to impart revelation, get my attention, or open wells of revival and healing, so be it. I’ll echo Mary’s words when the angel Gabriel visited and conversed with her “You see before you the Lord’s servant, let it happen to me as you have said.” And the angel left her (Luke 1:26-38).
Christ paid the price for our spiritual blessings and access to heavenly things - angels included. Where I would be concerned about angelic revelation as being deceptive or as angels actually being demonic spirits, is where not-yet Christians claim angelic revelation while rejecting the cross of Christ.
Angels have a purpose in God’s plan. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to the Body of Christ that an angel, called the “Winds of Change” should usher in a new move of God.
Of the angels we learn, “He makes His angels winds and His servants flames of fire” (Heb. 1:7, NAS; see also Psalm 104:3, 4). If God has chosen to send them to us, it behooves us to welcome their presence as we usher in the presence and move of the Lord.
We see a manifestation of God’s presence and power by means of “wind and fire” in the New Testament on the day of Pentecost “when suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance” (Acts 2:1-4).
Angels are messengers from God in heaven to His church on earth, and they seem to appear at the most critical points in the history of salvation. We get the sense also that they observe what’s happening here on earth at least in the life of the Church. Christ ended two of His parables saying “there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents” (Luke 15:7,10, NKJV). They are also reapers in the great harvest, “…the reapers are the angels” (Matt. 13:39). Described as “ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation” (Heb. 1:14, italics mine).

Encounters/Visitations

Some people have even ventured to say that my visions and visitations are false. That’s like telling someone who’s just told you about a dream they had in their sleep that they didn’t really dream it.
In the case of my encounter with Paul the apostle, just as Paul didn’t know if he was in his body or out of his body when he was taken into the third heaven, I don’t know whether my encounter was in a vision or an actual encounter. I do know that it was not of the adversary. God had reason for this experience and for the revelation that transpired from it. These things I cannot refute.
It’s not that far out there when you consider that the apostle Peter beheld Jesus, Moses, and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration and was actually commissioned while in a visionary trance, to preach to the Gentiles (see Matt. 17:9, Acts 10:19).
Some may not find my experience doctrinally sound, and liken it to speaking to the dead, and unbiblical, citing the apostle Paul’s warnings in Galatians 1:8, and 2 Corinthians 11:14, of which I’m very aware. My accountability team and I, through careful examination, determined that this vision was not outside of God’s realm. God had a purpose and a plan for the revelation He gave me and it all pointed to Christ.
In visions and encounters that I share, I emphasize that it boils down to Jesus Christ who is the essence of everything and is the All in All. It’s all about Him, the Way, the Truth, and the Life. An encounter with heaven is an encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ.
Many people don’t see what’s happening in the spirit realm, viewing things only from the physical realm. This is one reason why there’s so much division right now. I have found that many are judging things by what they see or hear in the natural, by their natural senses, to feelings, or without having relevant supernatural experiences themselves.

No Prototype for Revival

One of my colleagues told me of a pastor and his wife visiting Lakeland from Las Vegas last week. They pastor a church of over 5,000 people. They shared that they had to repent for believing in their hearts some of the concerns that they’d heard or read about, without first seeking the Lord about it or attending the outpouring, and experiencing first hand what God was doing here. They were amazed by the power and the glory of God there, and have headed back to Nevada with good reports!
This seems to be what I hear from many attending, and from what I read on blogs from people who’ve experienced the fire of God at our meetings. Every night we see hundreds of pastors and leaders all hungry for the fire of God to touch their churches, to disarm the religious paradigms that keep God in a box, quenching the work of the Spirit.
People may see me or others sprawled out on the floor, or in heavenly laughter, or shaking because of the glory and presence of God, but try to look beyond and understand that something’s happening in the spirit, trusting that there’s that other realm that you may not see.
Revival is often messy because there’s a lot happening and sometimes it’s hard for people to take in everything they see in the natural. Many come and some do manifest fleshly things, but for the most part, everyone is sincere and of good intention at a revival. Trust it’s better to be full of life with a little untidiness than to be dead. Also, trust that God is big. He can handle it and can separate the tares from the wheat.
Revival shakes paradigms. It doesn’t fit the mainstream Church’s way of thinking. Revival is an upstream move of God that breaks away from the stagnant pools of religion and tradition. Those bound by tradition and inside a paradigm of do’s and don’ts who give way to an upward stream, find transformation, and a new supernatural, empowering paradigm for their lives.
Moves of God like this are never normal. Do you think what happened in Acts looked normal to the disciples, or even to the onlookers? Pentecost was way, way out there, pretty far out, and must have caused much talk. No one had ever seen anything like it before. Revival is about new things happening, so it’s important not to be quick to judge. There’s no prototype for revival. It’s not a cookie cutter thing. We’re only in our baby stages - and there’s a lot to learn, but what we need now is the support of the Church because unity is crucial.
If you cannot understand the supernatural things of God, or even if you disagree or choose to discount or discredit me in any way, then I urge you to look at the fruit. Every day we’re seeing salvations. Every day people are being healed, not only physically, but emotionally too! Every day, people who thought they knew Christ are discovering Him in a fresh and powerful new way. Every day, we’re teaching people how to use their gifts to evangelize. We’re equipping and sending hundreds into the streets and marketplaces to talk about Jesus.
It’s not even limited to this region. We’re seeing this move of God as exponential growth because people carry the anointing and glory of God home to their churches and regions, empowered to “do the same stuff” and ignite more fires.

Before You Pick Apart the Worker…

Please examine the fruit before you pick apart the worker. People are being saved! Certainly this is common ground with every believer - our hearts should always be for the lost. Can we not come together and make this our mission, understanding that our theologies may be different but that we agree on this very important and vital commission. We serve the same God. God is the Father of all of us. We are His children. We are all in the same family. We are all running the same race but at different paces. The Word planted on good soil bears good fruit!

Salvation of the Lost

If you’re watching out a window from a distance and see a child running around a busy street and in obvious danger of being hit, but see someone close-by who could help, what would you do? Would you first judge the person to determine if he or she is “fit” enough or qualified to lend assistance, in your eyes? Would you check to see that the person is wearing an “S” for “Superman” on his shirt? Would you wait for the right person to come along that fits your mold, or would you throw open the window and yell, “That child - save that child!”
Please. Our mission is to save the lost. Period. Everything that is happening at Lakeland is to that end. God is good. People are being saved. That should be the priority of every believer. You may not understand some of the things that you see. It may be out of your paradigm or traditional way of thinking, but trust that if God didn’t want this to happen that He is more than capable of shutting it down single-handedly without the help of man.
Jumping into rivers of condemnation, disapproval, even censure before experiencing things for yourself could make you responsible for the loss of the one who may have come to the Lord but for quick judgments or criticisms. God is doing new things! Church history should never be used as a blueprint for experiences or beliefs, that’s what the Word of God is for.

New Wineskins and New Garments

This move of God may not fit your perception of revival, especially if you are basing it on previous revivals, or even on the traditions of the Church. So too, I likely don’t fit the mold of the traditional evangelist. Jesus used the Pharisees’ disapproval as an opportunity to teach why it was important that He didn’t fit into their mold. First, He used the metaphor of the patched garments and said “No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old” (Luke 5:36). To try to attach a new, unshrunk garment to the old will not only tear and destroy the new but also the old won’t look right and will eventually tear again. Jesus contrasted the old and new again with a parable about new wine and old, saying that if a person pours new wine into old wineskins the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out, and the wineskins would ruin (Luke 5:37, 38).
What could possibly be so new in Jesus’ day as to be ruined by being attached to the old? The radical Gospel! Man-made rules and tradition would hinder the work. Jesus wanted them to see that the dead Pharisaical traditions didn’t result in heart transformations. It would be easier for them to clasp onto and justify what was familiar and comfortable, than to be led by the Holy Spirit but the two can’t be combined. Jesus wasn’t throwing out the law or discounting it but came to fulfill it. The Gospel needed to be free of the confines of tradition and religious comfort zones to work its power. Jesus wanted to restore the hearts of the people, to restore life to the core of the Hebrew faith. Those external things, as Paul wrote in Colossians 2:23, “have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.” Their system of laws had lost Christ who was their substance. They had the shadows but not the substance of Christ. Pride pretended to penetrate heaven but hadn’t.
Signs, wonders, and miracles should be proof of the Gospel. However, Jesus said there would be false signs and wonders in the last days that were not done by Him (Matt. 7:21-23). Of this, I am well aware. Some people may do these things in His name and yet never really have a relationship of love and fellowship with Jesus. Salvation is knowing Jesus and being known by Him - it’s much more than spiritual works or a verbal confession. I understand that lofty places in this visible kingdom are no proof of anyone’s acceptance with God, and neither are the mighty works, even done in Jesus’ name. However, the condition of the heart is what truly allies us with Him. This I’ve stressed repeatedly in my ministry. The heart changes when someone spends much time with the Lord. This is the foundation of my ministry and my walk with Jesus. From the outset of my salvation, my ministry, and even today, I spend hours in the secret place of His presence. I seek Him and His will for every meeting. My team here at Lakeland knows that several hours of every afternoon; before every meeting, I’m not to be disturbed as I spend time with Jesus. Signs, wonders, miracles, dreams, and visions I believe are His loving response - the fruit of fellowship.
Spend time in His presence and you won’t be as resistant to change. You won’t be afraid to be a new wineskin, God’s present wineskin. You won’t even be the same wineskin as tomorrow, because with God wineskins are new and newer. New wineskins won’t limit God or what He can do.

When Did the Devil Change His Plan?

From what I’ve been hearing, my heart is saddened because critical people are bringing more attention to the supposed “works of the devil” in my life, and here in Lakeland than to the very real and wondrous works of God. Too much credit is being given to the devil and to man to the detriment of God’s sovereignty and power. Some are even attributing good and wonderful manifestations of God’s loving response to His children, to the devil! But this exalts no one but themselves when they choose to make a ministry out of their judgments and criticisms in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Since when did the devil come to heal the sick, raise the dead, open deaf ears and eyes, lead people to salvation in Jesus, or preach that the Kingdom of God is at hand? Just when did the devil change his plan? Jesus promised life and life more abundantly, and that’s the fruit that we’re seeing in Lakeland.
For this reason, I asked my staff to remove from our website, articles that are causing such strife and division and deterring the Body from the very real and pressing focus of these last days. Jesus wept when people missed the purpose. Every blessing flowed and people received, but they missed the purpose. Don’t miss the purpose!
Again I emphasize, it’s good and right to search out the Truth and to discern the spirits, God expects us to do so. Nevertheless, it’s also important to do so outside of one’s comfortable box, not mistaking discomfort for discernment, and realizing that God is not only a God who is the same yesterday, today, and forever, but also a God of new things. Realize also, that if you spend time in His presence, in fellowship with Him, and if daily, you put on the full armor of God and spend time in His Word; you’ll be more comfortable erring on the side of extravagance rather than quench the Spirit. A body of believers without the Holy Spirit is a breathless, lifeless body.

Accountability

I am accountable to God, and to those who He has sent to me to speak wisdom into my life and ministry - (I submit to an accountability team that comprises my pastor and spiritual overseers from varying backgrounds and denominations). They have not discounted the things that the Lord has shown me just because they don’t fit the mold of tradition or the old wineskins that some are carrying. The dreams, visions, and experiences that I’ve brought forth have been solely for ministering to the Body of Christ. My experiences have made me even hungrier and more zealous for God. That hunger transfers into a hunger to see others experience what I know to be true. They’ve been substantiated through the Word of God in principle, and accepted and given the go-ahead by my accountability team.
I also have an entire department of our ministry devoted to intercession, to coordinating and administering prayer covering over my life and family, over the ministry, and to those to whom we minister. We have an email list called The Firewall that comprises hundreds of intercessors from around the world who keep us covered in prayer.

Steadfast Word of God

Certainly, some people may not understand the visions God has given me, just as I may not understand theirs, but I’ll always hold and stand firm on the truths and the promises He’s given me because He lines them up in my life with the Word. What eternally matters is His Word, which is steadfast and true. My visions may fade away but God’s Word never will. As long as I have the Word, I don’t even need manifestations to prove to me that God is God.
However, God has promised that it shall come to pass in the last days that He will pour out His Spirit upon all flesh: that “your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions” (Joel 2:28). God is raising up an Ezekiel company empowered with the gifts of faith and the working of miracles, with voices like trumpets commanding and heralding the miraculous power of God. Effectiveness and power isn’t limited to clergy. God will pour out His Spirit upon all flesh.
We have to be immersed people. I want to be saturated with everything that God has for me - including dreams, visions, miracles, signs, wonders, and everything accessible to me as a child of God in the supernatural realm of His kingdom. I want the same for you, and so does God.

Go the Distance

People may criticize me for my boldness and zeal, for my methods and ways, for my intensity and urgency, but when we follow the Holy Spirit, He often leads us to do bold and even unexpected things - even outside of our norm. Samuel prophesied to King Saul that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon him and that he would prophesy and be turned “into another man” (1 Sam. 10:6). I am another man. Try to look beyond my paunch and the tattoos, and see how God has used me, and see how He can use you, and is using others.
Christianity shouldn’t be a dead religion but full of life, vim, and strength! Supernatural signs and wonders so often lead people to the saving power of the Lord Jesus Christ. Whether people know it or not, no matter which way a person comes to Christ, the supernatural is involved.
It’s vital for us to go the distance with God if the world is ever going to experience the might of who He really is! Walking in communion with God and in the reality of heaven on earth is the distance to aim and reach for but you have to be open to the impossible happening, even if it bursts your wineskin. The realities of heaven that have happened in my life, and that are happening here at Lakeland are to glorify God so that the lost would come into right relationship with Him, for He is mighty to save.

Take Part in the Feast

God uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. For some reason, He’s chosen a bald-headed, red-bearded, tattooed, pierced, imperfect man as an agent for revival. I understand why I would come as a shock to the religious camp. Nevertheless, trust that if what I’m doing is of the flesh or of the devil, I will fail, but if what’s happening is from God, nothing and no one can quench this blazing revival fire unless God wills it.
We’re throwing a feast and we’re inviting the sick, the poor in spirit, the oppressed, and those bound in old wineskins. We’re going out to find and minister to those that no one else can touch to bring them in, and we’re seeing an outpouring of God’s blessings such that we cannot contain. Is it the work of the devil?
Spend time praying for souls. I pray you can see past my imperfections and gaze at the perfection of Christ Jesus. Break through your old wineskin and into the present one. Trust the wisdom of God and His hand in all of this.
I’m thankful that people are being watchful in these last days, just as I am watchful. Questions are good when we’re uncertain of things. Trust too what a respected Pharisee advised in Acts 5:38, 39: “And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it - lest you even be found to fight against God.”
I understand that people have questions, and God understands too! I invite you to come to Lakeland to see what God has for you, and to see for yourself the mighty and wondrous things that God is doing here. Thanks again for hearing my heart. It is my heart that we can bring unity to the Body of Christ to see a great harvest.

Fresh Fire to you,

Todd Bentley

By Anonymous on Jul 4, 2008

Anonymous,
The Jesus I believe in is the Jesus in the Bible. Not the one who has to offer His blood over and over. As I said before, they do not preach the Jesus of the Bible. Bob Jones is on record and video saying just that and others agree with him. I am not going to stop telling the truth just because people think I should not. Neither do I give in to “rebuke” when it is not justly deserved. I am not the first messenger who got blamed for the message. I did not invent what the Bible says about these matters, it is there for anyone who cares to look. It’s a shame too few care to.

By Eve on Jul 4, 2008

Eve, no one can shut you up - but I do pray that the Lord would open your eyes and that you repent from bearing false witness against your brothers and sisters in Christ, before we all stand before Him to give an account for words spoken against them.

By Anonymous on Jul 4, 2008

Anonymous
Please, what have I said that is not true? I assure you my eyes are wide open I use them to read Scripture for a start. I check everythiing with Scripture. So should you. When it comes to tests, The Bible gives us more than one. A man would only have to fail one to be disqualified. That’s God’s standard, not mine. (see earlier post)If you don’t apply all God’s standards you will be deceived. I will pray for you as I do for the others who really do not understand what is going on.
Believe me, it gives me no pleasure to see people led astray. It grieves me that the Bible prophesies it in many places, no matter what we do, many will be taken in by lying signs and wonders and false prophets and teachers.

BTW that respected Pharisee in Acts was not a believer and there is no evidence he ever converted. If his advice had any validity, Islam would have died out centuries ago, or do you believe it is of God?

I forgot to ask you. If Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever, how come he now has to offer his blood every year as Bob Jones stated? That is not the same Jesus as Paul preached. Todd says Bob Jones is his mentor. Do they not believe in the same Jesus as each other? Since Bob taught him how to enter the heavenlies, it would really surprise me if they do not.

The Jesus I believe in offered His blood once for all. How about you? How do you reconcile this?

By Eve on Jul 4, 2008

Rob, you have to be joking.

Anonymous, if you refuse to take the Word of God as the final arbiter of truth then all I can say is heaven help you on the Judgement day.

Eve, you have my heartfelt endorsement to continue to use the unadulterated Word of God to defeat the enemy right up until the Judgement Day. The bible warns us about how tough it will be to remain faithful and true to the Word of God. Those of us who have determined to remain true to the Word of God must encourage each other until the very end.

God bless you Eve.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 4, 2008

I believe the Bible as the final authority, and that the Jesus of the Bible brought us into reconciliation with God the Father through His life, His teaching, His death, and His resurrection. So does Bentley, so does Jones.

Your accusations are false.

God Bless

Bye

By Anonymous on Jul 4, 2008

If so then you owe Eve an apology for your outrageous attack on her use of the Word of God to attempt to deal with the apostasy so evident in the world today.

Eve has clearly shown the likes of Bentley and Jones to be outrageous heretics with extreme and in fact very dangerous doctrines so your aligning yourself with them defeats your argument outright.

I would love to believe that I have made a mistake but the vehemence of your attack on her use of the Word of God to dispel error falsehood and apostasy is disturbing and certainly NOT consistent with your claims.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 4, 2008

Eve needs to repent of slander and malicious gossip - so do you.

By Anonymous on Jul 4, 2008

2 Timothy 3: 16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.”

I urge you to seek the Lord while He may be found.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 5, 2008

From the “Deception Bytes” site -

Todd Bentley, who touched off the Florida outpouring (also known as the Florida Healing Revival) holds William Branham in high regard. In fact Todd Bentley claims that he now has the angel of William Branham! This must be the same angel that Branham claims did all the supernatural works in his meeting. Did you catch that? It is not the Holy Spirit who is responsible- it is an angel!

“Do not let anyone disqualify you by making you humiliate yourself and worship angels. Such people enter into visions, which fill them with foolish pride because of their human way of thinking. They do not hold tightly to Christ, the head. It is from him that all the parts of the body are cared for and held together. So it grows in the way God wants it to grow.” — Colossians 2:18-19, NCV.

The reason Paul wrote this scripture to the Colossian church was that it was being infiltrated with Gnostic teachings. The Gnostics valued what they experienced and what they learned from ‘angels” over Holy Scripture. (Is any of this sounding familiar?) These Gnostics claimed they believed in scripture but did not depend on it as their source!

The following explanation of modern Gnostics come from “Angel Worship” taken from www.bibletools.org and sums up Gnosticism beautifully. Modern Gnostics who believe in “progressive revelation” have also succumbed to this first of Satan’s ploys. While God does reveal things to us, the critical point is that what is revealed—if it truly comes from Him—will never contradict what He has already revealed in His Word. “God is not a man that He should lie” (Numbers 23:19).

Progressive revelation advocates believe that their revelations are more authoritative than the Bible, rather than complementing and harmonizing with it, making them ripe for satanic influence under the guise of God revealing something new to them. They may sincerely believe that God speaks to them, yet they simultaneously mistrust what He has already said in inspired Scripture. They tend to shy away from Bible study, concluding that they do not need it since God speaks directly to them, and if there is anything important, God will let them know.

Galatians 1:8 ….”though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

This is the Word of God the final arbiter on matters of faith and truth.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 5, 2008

Anonymous,
Have you asked them? Have you seen Bob Jones’s ‘Elijah list interview’ where he says exactly what I say he does?
The slander is not on my part. I am telling you what he did say: in public, on air, and online.
You believe in the Biblical Jesus. By Bob Jones’s own admission, he does not. Do not get caught up with them, your eternal future is at stake.

By Eve on Jul 5, 2008

I shared this with our members the other day and thought I would share it here as it seems there are a lot of people that are judging Todd Bentley:(

Today’s Bible Verse, Thought & Prayer for 07-02-08

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:2/NIV

Thought…
Jesus is concerned that we not have a critical spirit toward others, especially about their motives as to why they did something. We can’t assume to know another person’s heart; only God can. When we are unfairly critical, overly harsh, or unduly judgmental, we need to remember that God will use that same standard on us. I don’t know about you, but I need grace. So do those I love. I’m going to try very hard to be as gracious toward others as I’m trusting that God is going to be gracious with me.

Prayer…
Forgive me, Abba Father, for the times that I’ve been far more critical of others than I should be. Arouse within me a passion to be gracious toward others so that they can see your graciousness shining through me. In Jesus’ name I pray. Amen.

Regards,
The Joseph V. Bednarsky Jr. Ministries Forum Team.

http://joebednarsky.com/forum/index.php

By Joe Bednarsky on Jul 5, 2008

What do you think of the Florida Outpouring revival in Lakeland Florida?

I hope anyone reading this will come and join my forum and add their input on this subject, all Biblical teachings are welcome.

http://joebednarsky.com/forum/index.php?topic=212.0

By Joe Bednarsky on Jul 5, 2008

1 Thessalonians 5:21 …..”JUDGE all things: hold fast to that which is good.”

2 Thessalonians 2:15…..”stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or by our epistle.”

2 Thessalonians 2:11,12 …”for this cause GOD shall send STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not THE TRUTH, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

Galatians 1:8 …..”though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

The bible clearly teaches that our eternal destiny depends on our willingness and ability to faithfully JUDGE ALL THINGS by the WORD OF GOD. ALL truly born-again, Bible-believing Christians must JUDGE all things according to the revealed Word of God OR be subject to the delusion which God will send to those who do not love the truth.

Paul says emphatically in Galatians 1:10,11,12 …”do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men should I be the servant of Christ. But I certify you brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is NOT after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

By Wayne Capell on Jul 5, 2008

I put this up on 29th June originally, and based my argument upon it. I just noticed it is still awaiting moderation, is there a reason for that please? Do I need to edit it at all?
It may help to show why I said some of the above, if accepted.

Thanks

……………………….

Angels control finances according to Todd Bentley. Definitely not Biblical
http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=40&pid=954&bid=

He quotes the following as proof:
And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.
Phil 4:19 (ANIV)

Where’s the angel?

In http://www.etpv.org/2003/angho.html

Todd “teaches” about angels. Not much of this is scriptural either. We are supposed to preach and the Holy Spirit saves through Jesus. Angels have nothing to do with this process, contrary to what Todd suggests.

He also said Emma was female - even though he denies it now, he actually said God referred to “her”. Is he saying , by denying it, that God did not tell the truth? If it was God, which I sincerely doubt.

“She glided into the room, emitting brilliant light and colors. Emma carried these bags and began pulling gold out of them. Then, as she walked up and down the aisles of the church, she began putting gold dust on people. ‘God, what is happening?’ I asked. The Lord answered: ‘She is releasing the gold, which is both the revelation and the financial breakthrough that I am bringing into this church. I want you to prophesy that Emma showed up in this service - the same angel that appeared in Kansas City - as a sign that I am endorsing and releasing a prophetic spirit in the church.’ ”

Todd may have removed this from his website, making it harder for his followers to check his words (he has not repented of the error, just hidden it), but those who have seen it still have copies on the web.

BTW what is a prophetic spirit? Prophecy comes by the Spirit of God.

By Eve on Jun 29, 2008

By Eve on Jul 7, 2008

Funny when they expect someone to rise from the dead that they don’t go ahead and bury them. Did they do that with Jesus? For that matter did they even EXPECT him to rise from the dead?

These people are so foolish.

By Paula Coyle on Jul 8, 2008

Having just read Tal Brooke’s, “Riders of the Cosmic Circuit”, I am amazed at the similarities between the kundalini supernatural manifestations of Hinduism, and the ’signs and wonders’ manifestations seen on youtube clips of Todd Bentley. It seems that Bentley’s supernatural claims are the same as those of the Indian super-gurus. Tal Brooke reveals these gurus to have been demonically possesssed. They used ’signs and wonders’ to enslave their disciples - along with hypnotism and brainwashing.

Tal Brooke reveals that the point of their extreme discipleship was to unleash ‘the god within’ - a form of spiritual evolution - so that they could emulate their masters in ’signs and wonders’ - and be gods themselves. This is the same tactic that Satan used on the Woman - to cause her to think that she could evolve and be “like God” through the sudden acquisition of mystical knowledge (Gen.3:1-7). Satan authored the theory of evolution and it is the bedrock for atheistic science, the occult, mystery religions, Freemasonry, and various relgions. Every “religious spirit” that binds spirit and mind uses Satan’s template of evolution.

Todd Bentley is no different. He claims to have been sawn apart and stuffed with boxes of ‘knowledge’ that only he can ‘impart’. He claims to be able to ascend to heaven at will, and to bring Jesus down to himself - in other words, to be “like God”. Todd touches people or “booms” or “bams” at them and they are jerking similar to the ’shaktipat’ demonic transference of the gurus by touch and voice. They, too, thought that they were “like God”.

When you are being deceived you don’t know it and you justify what you believe. You are the good guy. After all, you are operating in the Name of Christ, so you must be good? But that is how Satan moulds his anti-Christs. All anti-Christs in the Church believe they are doing the will of God. Satan cannot use an outsider to derail the Church - he uses the enemy within. How ironic: the guy believes he is doing the will of God; the Church believes he is doing the will of God; yet Satan is the string-puller and both dance to his deceptions.

God is never deceived but we can be, can’t we?

Blessings

Glenn

By Glenn on Jul 8, 2008

Thank you brother Brother Bill. I have enjoyed all the teachings that you have laid out in the past and I know you are a man willing to stand up against fools like Bentley. I can only see that unless this man repents he will be another miserable case on Judgement Day telling God all that he has done for Him, yet God will say ‘I never knew you’.

I am from Australia and unfortunately this false anointing has arrived here in Sydney. A good friend of mine has recently received back a young female stating that she has this. I would like to know what sort of consequences this could have on that congregation as the pastor has failed to rebuke and put out this person as yet.

Unfortunately some Aussie email newsletters that are somewhat conservative have proclaimed that this anointing is of God. But that surely does not surprise me, as 1000s of Salvos, Baptists, etc, have attended the Hillsong Conference this week. It seems that most denominations, if not all, (bar the Sydney Anglicans), have jumped into bed with Hillsong and their ‘emergent church’ counterparts. I just praise the Lord there are still people like Peter Danzi, Philip Powell, A Morgan, Sam Ulay and Allan Hodge who are not willing to side with this stuff.

Praise the Lord for the few who just need Christ without the gimmicks, programmes and marketing!

By Joshy on Jul 8, 2008

Continuing my reading on this blog I see people who say they are Christian telling us that Toronto was of God?? Toronto was not of God my friends - neither is Todd Bentley.
Helen, God allows these deceptions as stated in 1 Corinthians 11:19 to find out those who are true. Helen please read your Bible. If you are His you will discern what is right and what is wrong. Toronto was marked with false prophecies yet these people did not step down from their ministry. Moriel Ministries is an excellent place to start reading as to what really happened at the Toronto Vineyard church. My friend please listen to others who have written into this blog. God bless

By Joshy on Jul 8, 2008

Words, words, words, words (and accusatory) which the gospel is not - but a demonstration of the power of God

By apple on Jul 9, 2008

hey dudes…this will get you going….
The Bible says that Jesus is the word of God…the Bible is useful for teaching, correcting, etc, and God-breathed but it does not contain God…he is bigger…so worship Jesus and not the Bible.
…Luther and the roman emperor Constantine were okay but they were not infallible

By bish on Jul 9, 2008

bish, following the teachings God has provided to us in the bible is the only way to worship God in a manner pleasing and acceptable to God Himself.
The reformation instigated by Luther was about reinstating the sole authority of the scriptures as the basis for all matters of faith and morals.
We cannot know God apart from His Word and what He has chosen to tell us about Himself.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 10, 2008

Hey bish and apple,
please don’t make any more comments like that. I hate to see people expose their biblical ignorance before the world and embarrass themselves. You’re probably very nice people. God Bless

By Anonymous on Jul 10, 2008

hey anon dude do u hav a relationship with jesus? or just words on a page?

By bish on Jul 10, 2008

Wayne,
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and he reveals himself in many ways. He is alive today and talks to people by his Spirit just like he did to all the people in the bible, which I read all the time.

By apple on Jul 10, 2008

Joshy,
I thoroughly enjoy the robust discussions on the various blogs on this website, and I am a fellow Australian -FYI.
Unfortunately you paint the Toronto movement in misleading colours IMHO. Please read my testimony in the blog on ‘Pentecostalism - biblical or a con’ on this website.
With kind regards.

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 10, 2008

Your comments are disturbing, ‘apple’. Such thoughts can be a distraction from the real issue of Salvation by the Grace of God ALONE
Justification by Faith in Jesus Christ ALONE
and SOLA SCRIPTURA
The Bible ALONE is the sole authority on matters of faith and morals allowing the truly born again to live a life pleasing to the God of the Bible.

From the “Deception Bytes” site -

Todd Bentley, who touched off the Florida outpouring (also known as the Florida Healing Revival) holds William Branham in high regard. In fact Todd Bentley claims that he now has the angel of William Branham! This must be the same angel that Branham claims did all the supernatural works in his meeting. Did you catch that? It is not the Holy Spirit who is responsible- it is an angel!

“Do not let anyone disqualify you by making you humiliate yourself and worship angels. Such people enter into visions, which fill them with foolish pride because of their human way of thinking. They do not hold tightly to Christ, the head. It is from him that all the parts of the body are cared for and held together. So it grows in the way God wants it to grow.” — Colossians 2:18-19, NCV.

The reason Paul wrote this scripture to the Colossian church was that it was being infiltrated with Gnostic teachings. The Gnostics valued what they experienced and what they learned from ‘angels” over Holy Scripture. (Is any of this sounding familiar?) These Gnostics claimed they believed in scripture but did not depend on it as their source!

The following explanation of modern Gnostics come from “Angel Worship” taken from www.bibletools.org and sums up Gnosticism beautifully. Modern Gnostics who believe in “progressive revelation” have also succumbed to this first of Satan’s ploys. While God does reveal things to us, the critical point is that what is revealed—if it truly comes from Him—will never contradict what He has already revealed in His Word. “God is not a man that He should lie” (Numbers 23:19).

Progressive revelation advocates believe that their revelations are more authoritative than the Bible, rather than complementing and harmonizing with it, making them ripe for satanic influence under the guise of God revealing something new to them. They may sincerely believe that God speaks to them, yet they simultaneously mistrust what He has already said in inspired Scripture. They tend to shy away from Bible study, concluding that they do not need it since God speaks directly to them, and if there is anything important, God will let them know.

Galatians 1:8 ….”though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

This is the Word of God — the final arbiter on matters of faith and truth.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 12, 2008

If souls are being saved by the Holy Spirit and people are being healed by Jesus Christ–then why do you want to spend your time bashing ministers who are on the front line in the army of God.
If you spent your time wisely–you would be in the streets ministering for Jesus Christ. Stop bashing the ministers of God when souls are being saved from an eternal hell of torments. If you are the cause of one sinner going to hell because of your negative comments about a man ministering salvation — then you will have to answer to God for your own actions on judgement day. I watched Todd on Nightline and he prayed in the name of Jesus — not an angel. You all know better than that–shame on you!

By great awakening on Jul 12, 2008

Another comment: Angels were always used in the Bible. Ministering angels help us when we need them. If an angel walked in your room to minister to you–what would you do. Do you believe you have a guardian angel???
You are all confused! God is our creator, His Son Jesus Christ is our SAVIOR, and He took 39 stripes upon His back for our healing (Well, Bam! Now you know Jesus Christ is the healer, not Todd or any other minister) And what is it with the word Bam that causes people to resent Todd for saying it when he prays for people. What if you had an illness that the doctors could not cure and your only hope was Jesus Christ’s healing. Who cares if he say Bam! or Bam Bam hot diggedy Zam! as long as Jesus Christ is your healer and you have faith for your own healing–and you are healed–so be it.
The Holy Spirit is our comforter and is everywhere at anytime. The Holy Spirit is the one who draws sinners to Christ–not Todd or any other minister. Todd said that he prays for people and they are healed–he did not say he healed the people. Get it straight people.
Pray for Todd Bentley and his ministry. Love one another as Christ loves you. Love Todd Bentley!

By great awakening on Jul 12, 2008

If God used a donkey in the Bible–what difference does it make if a minister does not wear a suit?? Look at the heart of man–not his skin. It doesn’t matter if he is black or white in skin color–Right? What if he had green skin??? Do you really see how childish all this is???STOP BASHING GOD’S GENERALS AND GO OUT INTO THE STREET AND MINISTER TO THE SINNERS YOURSELF. STOP WASTING YOUR TIME AND ENERGY FIGHTING OTHER CHRISTIANS–DON’T YOU SEE WHAT THE ENEMY EVIL FORCE IS TRYING TO DO TO THE CHRISTIANS–CAUSE DIVISION–AND YOU ARE FALLING INTO THIS TRAP! Now, stop it in the name of Jesus Christ and get back on the right track and help others find the pathway to heaven. In God’s Love, Great Awakening

By great awakening on Jul 12, 2008

Hi ‘great awakening’,
As I read the above comments I hear valid questioning of theatrical antics and of violent assaults on people by Bentley. It is right to have doubts about any person who claims to follow Christ yet behaves in such bizarre ways.
Is he/they genuine and walking in the “flesh”, carried away by the audience’s “ooh”s, “wow”s, and “prazethelujah”s ? Or is he counterfeit? Many have come into the body of Christ through history and have performed counterfeit wonders, this is an unfortunate fact, and Christ’s flock has been fleeced (even Hillsong Hou$ton would admit this happened to his church in its early years).
Your point for us to go out into the street and minister to others is a well-needed call.
And finally, there are no such creatures as ‘God’s Generals’ in the New Testament teachings on church structure, as there is very little hierarchy, …. there are many bishops though in each locality. Don’t be gullible in accepting others’ teachings, please, as many seem to be building their own empires firstly, and the kingdom of the Lord Jesus only as a sideline.
We love our errant brothers don’t we and want to save them from disaster.

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 12, 2008

When people enter through the doors of any church–they are there to hear the word of God and a message. The pastor is in control of the message and can lead his flock in a direction that suits the people in control of the church. The pastor is given a label of teacher, preacher or minister. Do you believe we will be divided into sections when we get to heaven or we will all be as one in Christ Jesus?? I am a child of God the same as you or any other preacher, teacher, pastor, bishop or minister. We will have to give an account of our actions to God. We must all give an account of ourselves to God. Todd will have to give an account and so will you and I. I dare not bring down another man’s ministry if God is using him for souls saved. We must up-lift our brother in Christ and pray that more souls are saved from hell. If the man stood on his head while he is preaching–does that make him a false prophet????? The Bible has 10 commandments–one of the commandments is to not bear false witness against your brother. To call Todd a false prophet is bearing false witness against him. What about all the people that Todd can reach for Jesus that none of you can reach. All this MINISTER BASHING should stop and each one get on their face before God and ask for forgiveness and seek their own ministry. The time you are wasting bashing Todd should be spent in a more constructive way–like loving each other. I love each one of you in God’s love. If I have offended you in anyway, I ask for your forgiveness and I ALSO FORGIVE YOU. cAN YOU DO THE SAME????? If you do not forgive your brother–your Father in heaven will not forgive you. Think about love and love Todd Bentley as Christ loves you.

By great awakening on Jul 12, 2008

Anonymous,
Thank God you gave Todd Bentley’s words in this post. I dare each one of you to read Todd’s words posted July 4th by Anonymous. Give me one reason why this man is not of the Most High God. Don’t you know you will have to give an account for your actions if one soul is lost because of your negative words. What is it — are you jealous of his ministry — are you afraid of God’s miracles. If you are not for Christ, then you are the anti-christ trying to stop the flow of the Holy Spirit from reaching the world. You are only one breath away from eternity and then you will stand before God. Stop bashing the ministers because you are also bashing the Holy Spirit. Just STOP it now in the name of Jesus Christ. If you were healed of cancer, would you just be quiet, or stand up and shout and praise the Lord for healing. You go to football games and shout, yell, and sometimes fall and roll on the ground just because a man ran with a piece of pig skin and made a touch down. How can you condemn anyone who has received a touch from the Holy Spirit and shout for joy. Come on people — think before you write words that will come back and bite you later.

By great awakening on Jul 12, 2008

great awakening,

You seem to be suggesting that Pastors, Ministers, and Teachers should not be corrected or that any exposing of their unbiblical doctrine or methods is not ‘love’.

However, you may wish to read God’s words to the pastors and shepherds in Jeremiah’s day (chapters 2, 10, 12, 22, 23 and 50,), and Jesus’ words to the religious leaders of His day in Matt.23.

I am sure some would regard such terminology as ‘unloving’. However, love in the Bible is not a human ‘don’t hurt feelings or cause division’, it is rather equated with truth. (Eph. 4:15; 1 John 3:18 etc.)

It is not ‘love’ to allow the flock to be fed on lies and unscriptural error without speaking up. This is something the apostle Paul also practiced (1 Tim. 1:20; 2 Tim. 2:18).

By Gillian on Jul 12, 2008

I read the first comment on this post from a man–Gary Morgan on May 25th 2008. I agree with him 100%. You can find Scriptures in the Bible to hide behind and call a man a false prophet–but you are not God and your job is not to judge other ministers when they are preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. How many of you are false prophets????? Jesus commandment to us was to love the Lord God with all our heart and love our neighbor as ourselves. Why can’t you love your brother in Christ. Stop this minister bashing before someone bashes your ministry. Again, I say love one another as Christ loves you. How many souls have been saved through your ministry, how many people have been healed through your ministry through Jesus Christ, how many people have been delivered through you ministry??? Oh ye of little faith! Why don’t you believe Jesus Christ is the Savior and healer and deliverer. Todd is a willing vessel with faith believing God’s power for today. Shame on you! The truth is Todd prays for people in the name of Jesus–what do you do????

By great awakening on Jul 12, 2008

great awakening - your comments are very disturbing. You need to note well what is said below:
The question about the outcome of such activities are very much a matter of conjecture but clearly many of these people have been exposed as fraudulent by people willing to allow the Holy Spirit to work through GOD’S WORD TO US the Bible. This is the way God intended for us to be able to stay right with HIM right up to the Judgement Day. All this other nonsense is a distraction from the real issue of Salvation by the Grace of God ALONE, and Justification by Faith in Jesus Christ ALONE
and SOLA SCRIPTURA
The Bible ALONE is the sole authority on matters of faith and morals allowing the truly born again to live a life pleasing to the God of the Bible.

From the “Deception Bytes” site -

Todd Bentley, who touched off the Florida outpouring (also known as the Florida Healing Revival) holds William Branham in high regard. In fact Todd Bentley claims that he now has the angel of William Branham! This must be the same angel that Branham claims did all the supernatural works in his meeting. Did you catch that? It is not the Holy Spirit who is responsible- it is an angel!

“Do not let anyone disqualify you by making you humiliate yourself and worship angels. Such people enter into visions, which fill them with foolish pride because of their human way of thinking. They do not hold tightly to Christ, the head. It is from him that all the parts of the body are cared for and held together. So it grows in the way God wants it to grow.” — Colossians 2:18-19, NCV.

The reason Paul wrote this letter to the Colossian church was that it was being infiltrated with Gnostic teachings. The Gnostics valued what they experienced and what they learned from ‘angels’ over Holy Scripture. (Is any of this sounding familiar?) These Gnostics claimed they believed in scripture but did not depend on it as their source!

The following explanation of modern Gnostics comes from “Angel Worship” taken from www.bibletools.org and sums up Gnosticism beautifully. Modern Gnostics who believe in “progressive revelation” have also succumbed to this first of Satan’s ploys. While God does reveal things to us, the critical point is that what is revealed—if it truly comes from Him—will never contradict what He has already revealed in His Word. “God is not a man that He should lie” (Numbers 23:19).

Progressive revelation advocates do believe that their revelations are more authoritative than the Bible, rather than complementing and harmonizing with it — making them ripe for satanic influence under the guise of God revealing something new to them. They may sincerely believe that God speaks to them, yet they simultaneously mistrust what He has already said in inspired Scripture. They tend to shy away from Bible study, concluding that they do not need it since God speaks directly to them, and if there is anything important, God will let them know.

Galatians 1:8 ….”though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

This is the Word of God the final arbiter on matters of faith and truth.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 12, 2008

Maintaining the integrity of bible teaching is the responsibility of all bible believing Christians.
I am obliged, however, to answer your question, “who made you the judge?” as faulty thinking in this area is allowing all manner of bizarre teachings to abound without censure.

The bible teaches in 2 Timothy 3:16 that “ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction for instruction in righteousness.”
2 Timothy 2:15, states “STUDY TO SHOW THYSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD, A WORKMAN THAT NEEDETH NOT BE ASHAMED, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH” (KJV).
1 Thessalonians 5:21 states “Prove (JUDGE) ALL things: hold fast to that which is good.”
This literally means to JUDGE ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF GOD.
For your information on this point I suggest you read the article “Judge Not” by Jacob Prasch. This article provides scriptural teaching on the issue of judging which I would very much like you to read. The church would be much healthier, spiritually, if such scriptural standards were applied consistently.
The bible teaches that we will give an account of ourselves on the Judgement Day.
There will be no one to speak for us, we will face God alone and be responsible for ourselves.
The responsibility to JUDGE ALL things is therefore placed on ALL truly born again, bible believing Christians who are, in fact, empowered by the Holy Spirit to do so. This is the sole means by which we are able to live a life pleasing to God rather than a futile life in opposition to the will of God, however successful it may appear to be in a worldly sense.
It is indictment upon the Christian church that we now have “anointed ones” running around claiming that bible believing Christians will be hurt by God if they dare to question them. These “anointed ones” also claim to have special revelation which is not to be subjected to the testing of scripture. This is because of the teaching of scripture to the contrary confirming they are wrong or false.
Please read the following examples and tell me who you think should be the judge:

-Pope Boniface VIII declared in his “Unam Sanctum Ecclesiam” of 1302 that:
“it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”
-In 1870 Pope Pius IX proclaimed “Papal Infallibility” in all matters of faith and morals.
This is the basis of multitudes of unscriptural and anti-scriptural teachings and practices which biblical Christians find absolutely abhorrent.
-The Roman Catholic Church NEVER changes. They say that about themselves.

This is not ignored by people who find that biblical teaching prevents them from engaging in the popular ecumenical and religious activities of the day. When compared with the clear teaching of scripture such ecumenical activity is Biblical Apostasy. The bible cannot be distorted to support both the claims of Jesus Christ and the claims of popery.
This most basic affront to biblical Christianity, the Roman Catholic teaching of “Unam Sanctum Ecclesiam” directly contradicts the words of Jesus in John 14:6:
“I AM the Way the Truth and the Light, NO man cometh unto the Father BUT by me.”

-The National President of the AoG in Australia, Brian Houston, however, has stated,
“We pray that this papacy, LIKE THOSE BEFORE IT, is marked by a commitment to seeing the Christian message continue to go forward and people changed by the power and truth of the gospel.” I have enclosed a copy of this statement for you to read.
Paul says in Galatians 1 verse 8 …..”though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”
I have heard and read of numerous examples of the AoG Executive pontificating on the basis of their “anointing” alone without reference to the teaching of scripture at all. I have been told by a senior AoG Pastor that he knew better than the Bible because of his experiences in the ministry, when I questioned why he was ignoring the clear teaching of scripture in his teaching and practice.
Another AoG pastor has informed me that he does not care about bible teaching, as he only cares about his anointing.
Paul states in Galatians 1 verses 10, 11 and 12 …..”do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

-Joel Osteen, pastor of the largest charismatic church in the USA, believes Mormons are fellow Christians:
Osteen states that “Mitt Romney, (a Mormon) has said that he believes in Christ as his saviour and that is what I believe”. Osteen admitted that he does not know much about Mormonism but was prepared to endorse Mormonism in an interview on Fox News before Christmas. When asked if a Mormon was a true Christian Osteen said, “in my mind they are. I am not one to judge the little details of it. So I believe they are. Mitt Romney seems like a man of character and integrity to me. When he says that Christ is his saviour that is a common bond and although I don’t agree with everything I just try to let God be the judge.”
The Mormon Jesus is clearly a false Jesus.

-Bill Hybels, another mega church leader has had Moslems preach in his pulpit and has claimed that Allah is the same God as the Christians and people of other faiths serve.

-Other groups influenced by “anointed ones” such as Peter Wagner are teaching about “territorial spirits.” They say that individuals do not even need to hear the Gospel at all to be saved if the territorial spirits are cast out. They therefore claim that we have “born again hindus, moslems and any other bizarre combination you can think of being saved without leaving their religious and social culture and without even hearing the Word of God at all”.

-There are many other false teachings and practices in church circles elsewhere in the world.

We should ALWAYS remember also that it was “the anointed” religious leaders of HIS day who had Jesus Christ crucified. The political leader “could find no fault with Him” but the religious leaders found Him to be a threat to them and their high office and demanded His execution at any cost.
The Bible repeatedly warns us about the proliferation of false Christs in the last days. Paul often warns about those who would pervert the Gospel of Christ. In 2 Thessalonians 2 verses 11 and 12 Paul states ….”for this cause God shall send strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
Should we “Prove (JUDGE) ALL things: hold fast to that which is good” in accordance with the scriptures, or should we follow the Gnostic teachings of the “anointed ones?”
The “horror” stories go on and on and on. I could provide many more examples for you but I have demonstrated the absolute necessity for all Bible believing, born again Christians to faithfully JUDGE ALL things by the Word of God and to hold fast only to that which is good SCRIPTURALLY and to reject emphatically ALL that is bad, false or contrary to the revealed Word of God.

The bible clearly teaches that our eternal destiny depends on our willingness and ability to remain faithful to the Word of God and that God Himself will send delusion to those who “love not the truth.” This delusion can only be avoided by faithful commitment to the Word of God and the determined rejection of all that is false.
In 2 Thessalonians 2 verse 15 Paul advises the brethren in Christ to ….”stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or by our epistle.”
In spite of the warnings that even the very elect will be deceived in these last days, Olwyn and I intend, by the grace of God, to remain faithful to Biblical Christianity for as long as possible.
The Apostle Paul gave the instruction in Galatians 1 verse 9 …..”if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received let him be accursed.” This is the biblical way to deal with these people who are perverting the gospel of Jesus Christ.
In response to your other suggestions, I must state in the strongest possible terms that I have absolutely NO intention of becoming one of the “anointed ones” NOR have I ever wanted to be an “anointed one” NOR do I envy them in any way.
I write this with the very best of intentions in the hope that you will flee the delusion which God has sent in order to establish the remnant of His church which will remain faithful to His Word.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 12, 2008

Mr. Wayne Capell,
Well spoken. I have visited many posts that are condemning Todd Bentley and you have explained your point of view in a professional way without hate and bitterness. Thank you. I have my belief,–and I also respect your belief. I know we will not agree on certain topics and that’s OK. We learn from each other, and I appreciate the time you have taken to write your post. I do not hear hate in your words and that is more than I can say for others who have written their posts about Todd on different web sites. Words of love will reach the heart of people, and the Holy Spirit is the only way for a complete change. Words have power and the Word of God is the most powerful force in the world. The blood of Jesus Christ is our only protection against the evil one. We must all cover ourselves with the precious blood of Jesus Christ by speaking these words over ourselves and our loved ones. God is love–and I sent the love of God to each one on the post. Again–thank you and God bless you and your family

By great awakening on Jul 12, 2008

Wayne, your eternal destiny depends on your relationship with Jesus. Satan knows the bible backwards, but he’s going to hell.

By Anonymous on Jul 12, 2008

Anonymous,
I read your posts for June 26 and 28 and agree with you 100%. I also read the posts by Helen and agree with her comments. If someone is against the power of God working in the lives of people in need of a miracle–then they are hurting other people by their actions and negative spoken words. I have been with a healing ministry for over 24 years and have seen blind eyes opened by the power of Jesus Christ. I have seen many miracles during 24 years and there is no one that can tell me miracles are from the devil. All I can say to anyone who comes against the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in these revivals with Todd or any other minister is—Shame one you for causing even one person to miss an opportunity to give their life to Jesus Christ by your negative words against the Holy Spirit that is working through him. If you think Todd is not doing a good job of ministering to the people–then why don’t you go out and see how many souls will be saved, healed and delivered by your own ministry??????The words you are speaking against God’s General will come back and bite you. What if people were saying negative words about you and your ministry. How would you feel???? You can take all the Scriptures in the Bible about false prophets and use them against this man of God–but who are you to prove he is a false prophet. Why don’t you attend his revival for one week and then see what the Holy Spirit can do for you. You could possibly laugh and that would certainly be good medicine for you. If someone went to the revival who was molested mentally, physically and sexually and was delivered and healed from this hurt and depression–don’t you think the best healing would be laughter?? They are laughting at the devil because they are delivered from him and laughting with the joy of the Lord after they are healed and delivered. What if the boy or girl was your son or daughter–and they were healed from this terrible depression and free to live a good life–would you think it was from the devil???? I don’t think so! What if it was you who needed healing?? Would you jumb up and down when you received your healing from an illness that could take your life within a two week period of time–and the doctors can no longer help you. The devil can not deliver you from himself–only the healing power of Jesus Christ–and Todd prays for people in the name of Jesus–not satan. We cannot serve two masters at the same time. We cannot go North and South at the same time. My master is God and I know Todd’s master is God or the miracles of God would not manifest in his services. I pray that this power of the Holy Spirit will spread to every city in the world and millions of people will be saved from hell–healed by Jesus Christ and delivered from the demons who try to destroy the souls of God’s Children. We do not want to see anyone go to hell and it’s important to stop this maddness of bashing ministers and join together in unity to pray for a great harvest of souls to come into the Kingdom of God. If I have offended anyone of you–I ask your forgiveness and I also forgive you. Love one another as Christ loves you. In God’s Love, Great Awakening

By great awakening on Jul 12, 2008

Thank you for your kind words great awakening. For your sake, however, I am very concerned that you are still dallying with the danger of looking at signs and wonders rather than testing ALL things by the Word of God. Please read the DECEPTION BYTES article very carefully as it is impossible to be both biblically-based and experientially-based. As was the case with Cain and Abel, only GODS’ way is pleasing to GOD.

Anonymous, my relationship with the Jesus Christ of the bible has been biblical from day 1. My salvation experience was at the emotional, experiential or soulish level of my life, with visions and other such euphoric experiences a significant part of my early testimony.

As I have chosen to grow in spiritual things since that day, however, I have immersed myself in the Word of God and realised that only what God has said in his Word is reliable. All else is subject to the delusion which God has promised to send those who do not believe and love the truth of HIS WORD. You cannot have a REAL relationship with the REAL Jesus unless you KNOW HIM. The ONLY WAY to KNOW HIM is by reading and applying the BIBLE - HIS WORD. Any old Jesus will NOT do on the JUDGEMENT DAY. ONLY THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE WILL BE ABLE TO SAVE US. Chasing after false and apostate leadership will not cut it with Jesus on the Judgement day.

Anonymous, your persistent obsession with falsehood and apostasy make it impossible to believe that your relationship is with the Jesus of the BIBLE

By Wayne Capell on Jul 12, 2008

Wayne

Where does the Bible say that your relationship with the Lord is not experiential?

By Anonymous on Jul 12, 2008

If Todd’s interaction with angels (Gen 6:1-4; which Jesus warned about prior to his return, Mt 24:37) and the other weird stuff [i.e. shaking, jerking, animalistic behavior] is normal, PLEASE TELL ME who then are the false prophets that Jesus and other NT writers warned about? What are the counterfeit miracles he warned about, and what is the “apostasy” Paul warned about as a major characteristic prior to the Lord’s return? This is the second time I have asked this question and none of you have even attempted to give me an answer. Why ….? Paul gives us the answer.

2 Tim 2:24-26
“And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.”

2 Thess 2:8-12
“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”

By where on Jul 13, 2008

Where?

I think I have heard angels (which are biblical) mentioned as many times at Lakeland as can be counted on my right hand. However the amount of times that Jesus is mentioned and sung would take a computer to calculate.

These ’straw man’ arguments by critics are getting tedious.

By Anonymous on Jul 13, 2008

The enemy of God, satan, has come to cause confusion in the minds of Christians. Each one of us must have a personal relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. We will not agree on everything in the churches — but one thing we must agree on is the salvation through Jesus Christ. Let us love one another as Christ loves us and stop bashing other ministers. These ministers can reach sinners for Christ that no one else can reach. It’s not about your style of ministry — it’s about the style of another man’s ministry that has you confused. I pray that this Holy Spirit revival will reach the world so that millions will be saved into the Kingdom of God. Visit the web site www.spiritlessons.com and read the stories about those who have experienced heaven and hell and then ask yourself “Are my negative words worth sending one soul to hell?” If you stand in the way of one sinner coming to Jesus for salvation — you are the one who will have to answer to God for that lost soul. We can take Scriptures out of the Bible and use them to try to justify our actions — but the end result is: who are you hurting by your negative words. Don’t you think God is big enough to take care of His children?? We have a choice to serve God or satan–there is no other choice. Pray for Todd Bentley and his ministry that the Holy Spirit will be in charge because Todd is only a willing vessel to be used by the Holy Spirit. Thank God we do have His angels to help us in our times of need. The angels are helping the ministry of Todd the same as the angels are helping you and your ministry. Love one another and stay united in the Kingdom of God. What about the donkey God used in the Bible. Was that of the devil or of God?? Just because we do not understand why God does certain things to get the attention of the sinner to come to Him, does not mean it is from the devil. Think!

By great awakening on Jul 13, 2008

Thanks for the information. I am signing off of this post but appreciate the time spent reading your messages. I ask God’s blessing for each one. In God’s Love, Great Awakening

By great awakening on Jul 13, 2008

Anonymous,
Have you ever watched Lakeland? Either you have considerably more fingers than most people or you do not watch much. Either way, your comment about straw man arguments is irrelevant.
Please tell me, where does the Bible tell you our relationship with the Lord is experiential? It is, surely, by faith.

By Eve on Jul 14, 2008

Eve, I spent a week in Lakeland and have watched it many evenings. It is the critics who are making the biggest noise about angels - completely out of all proportion.
The ’straw man’ argument is indeed relevant as what the critics are criticising and gossipping about is very different to the actual event.
Our relationship with the Lord as being experiential has been explained many times on this blog. It is amazing how this point is being overlooked or dismissed outright without any explanation. However I will try to explain once again:
Of course our relationship with an invisible God is by faith. Furthermore however, the word that Jesus used for knowing Him in Matt. 7 is the Greek ‘ginosko’which means an experiential knowlege (same word used in the NT for intimate relationship between husband and wife) as opposed to any kind of intellectual knowledge, or knowledge that comes from study or observation - i.e. there are other NT Greek words for knowledge that Jesus could have used - but pointedly used ‘ginosko’. Please think about it.

By Anonymous on Jul 14, 2008

Great awakening,
Each of us is a minister of the Good News of Jesus and his kingdom - every follower of Christ is called to evangelise, & share the LORD with others. It doesn’t all depend on making the ’star performers’ look good in the eyes of onlookers who don’t know Jesus yet. If there is a bad apple in the basket we all need to recognise it and refuse to eat.

The LORD God is well able to lead humble people to share the Good News with those of the elect who would have been saved through any ’star performer’ whose ministry must be curtailed.

Therefore, if Bentley is a fake he needs to be exposed as such - without conversation deteriorating into name-calling or false accusations or false defences. Substantiating facts is a vital part of this blog’s mission IMHO. As each disciple of Christ is to eschew all violence, the reports that Bentley has kicked &/or punched people who’ve responded to his ‘altar calls’ is an issue of high concern. And so is any case where he has declared someone healed if they haven’t been.

People who are not saved yet are not dumb. Often they can spot the fake earlier than we do who actually believe in the present-day ministry of Christ in supernatural power. Our God is great and history will unfold in the way he has purposed - and gifts of discernment (as well as natural faculties to discern) are given by him to be used, this is all part of living in the divine economy.

With kind regards

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 15, 2008

tru on Jun 2, 2008 wrote the following in regards to Toronto, but I review it in regards to the Florida ‘revival’, for below is a test not often applied to Christian revivals..

“The world within these churches is no different from the world within the asylum. (If you don’t believe me, visit a mental hospital and see for yourself.) In fact, sanity is relative, and it is subjective to qualify who is sane or who isn’t, (I speak from Toronto Experience perspective) so why distinguish between loons and non loons? With Toronto Experience the distinctions are so blurred that it is a case of the insane diagnosing the insane. If a madman had to break out of his asylum cell and find himself in a Toronto experience hall, he’d surely think he was still in the madhouse.”

Now this test (common sense) is scriptural, for the Holy Spirit is to give us “power, love and a SOUND MIND”… and a sound mind naturally produces ORDER and not chaos’; peace and not violence. On common sense Paul was to say,

“If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?”

In this verse Paul is commonsensically saying, ‘if we cannot even meet the standard that a common sense man of the world would know to be correct in regards to proper conduct, how will you ever meet the standard of God’; should we think the standard of God is less than the standard of man?’

Today, there are ministries in America under investigation by the IRS. Why? Simply, because they cannot meet the standard of man in relation to honest financial management.

When Christians see a supposed man of God kick an old lady in the head with biker boots, to heal her (as is claimed in the current Florida revival), what would they ‘quite reasonably’ think? Such a preacher is under indictment not only from God but from man also, for such an act is judicable as criminal under the laws of man and the law of man will not allow people to consent to acts of violence upon themselves (or else sadomasochism would not be criminal). If man (in his degraded wisdom) will not consent to allowing man to inflict violence on another man, how can we accuse the Holy Spirit of not being able to meet the rigtheousness of man!

Now Paul was also to write,

“For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth.”

What has happened to a Church where it can be said, ‘But them that are without judge righteously the people of God”? And what are the people without to make of criminal violence and a congregation of believers who call this violence (presumably) entertainment or, worse, worship”.

But let us not just condemn and fail to make a supporting case as there are exceptions to most things. So, let us say it would seem today, the law of the land will only allow the deliberate infliction of violence between men in limited circumstances; one is in wars, another is in boxing matches; and one still other is in revivals of God.

By Kerry Salt on Jul 16, 2008

Anonymous,
DO you listen to what’s said? I have heard Todd talk about angels on many occasions. I have heard him boast of violent acts. I have heard him mock prayer by laying hands on a young woman and saying “blah blah blah”. If Todd did not do these awful things, people could not post videos of it. It may be edited but it’s not dubbed.

He has been caught out in his lying. Christians are supposed to worship God in Spirit and Truth. Not just in Spirit, and never in lies. If it is of God where does all the mocking, violence and lying fit in? Do you really think anyone who does this will escape judgement if they do not repent?

By Eve on Jul 16, 2008

Eve, it is you who is not listening. Todd Bentley has hurt no one in any of his meetings. Or do you have any evidence to the contrary? To understand the context of the particular way he tells the stories of his sometimes unusual methods, you need to hear the whole talk - not based on a snippet from u-tube. As I explained above - I went down by the power of God before one of Todd’s associates got to within an arm’s length of me - how he prayed would have made no difference. I have also before prayed for people who have gone down by the power of God before touching them.

That goes the same for the way Todd has good clean fun while praying, he is not mocking at all - a sense of this cannot be gained from a snippet on u-tube. Reverence and holiness does not equal boring. God knows how to have fun more than anyone - He does not just HAVE a sense of humour He CREATED the stuff. You need to get rid of that religious spirit, and the one which slanders and loves to build straw man arguments to try and discredit the wonderful things that God is doing in and through His people. Lakeland is not about angels or Todd - but Jesus. Hope and pray the Lord opens the eyes of your heart and gives you freedom.

By Anonymous on Jul 17, 2008

Anonymous, God is Truth,
This believer tested the truth or otherwise of Todd’s stories and found him to be an outright liar. Look for yourself. If you refuse to believe the evidence in these two videos, the evidence of someone who put Todd’s claims to a very ingenious test that is up to you. If you continue in deception, that is your own choice. You will have to stand before the Judge of the whole earth and convince him you could not have known this is all fake. What do you really think he will say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toGYy-H3pCw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQquyHpwPy8&feature=user

These 2 videos show clearly how seriously and how carefully Todd Bentley’s claims are verified. Anyone who believes him after this really can have no excuse.
Please, for your own sake, consider this honestly.
The email in question is still on the site. I just looked.

By Eve on Jul 17, 2008

Anonymous,
It was Todd who said he knocked a man’s tooth out. His own words!
No one hurt? You obviously do not listen to what he says.

By Eve on Jul 17, 2008

Anonymous,
Proof Todd said this himself about knocking a man’s tooth out can be found here. Listen at 1.57 on the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K8XjObzfXM

By Eve on Jul 17, 2008

Actually Eve - if you had listened to that whole meeting instead of an edited video with captions, you would would have heard further explanation that it was the power of God which knocked the man over and took out a tooth which the man needed removed. The man himself said he did not feel a thing and was happy about the incident. Again - do you have any evidence to the contrary?

By Anonymous on Jul 17, 2008

Anonymous,
Anyone who knows me would find the idea I have a religious Spirit, or do not appreciate God’s sense of humour puzzling. They would think you are talking about someone else. I have watched Lakelend and Todd at length. The Youtube snippets are useful to illustrate points.
The fact is, however, that Todd did do the things in the snippets, and no man of God would do these things in any context. Even “out of context”, they show he is a fraud and a violent man who has nothing to do with the One True God.

By Eve on Jul 17, 2008

Anonymous,
Can you verify that? If that were me I would have preferred the dentist. How is tooth extraction by violent attack the same as divine healing even if he did find relief? True healing would have been a restored tooth, (not a gold filling either).

By Eve on Jul 17, 2008

No, Eve - people today are clever and educated enough to make up their own minds about the meetings without an edited version with captions exposing misconceptions.

Your allegations are false.

By Anonymous on Jul 17, 2008

Sorry, which post are you referring to? If you can’t verify your claim, then I’m not surprised, but I’d like to be sure I am answering what you meant to say.
What I mean is
Which allegations are false?

By Eve on Jul 17, 2008

The allegations made are: that the man was hurt; that Todd is a violent man (those who know him would disagree with you); that he is a fraud; and that he has nothing to do with the one true God.

If you prefer a dentist then that’s fine, no problem. However the guy in question obviously does not share your view.

You are bringing the allegation that Todd is lying and that the man was indeed hurt - so it is up to you to bring evidence that he was indeed hurt.

By Anonymous on Jul 17, 2008

But can you verify that?

By Eve on Jul 17, 2008

Can I verify what?

By Anonymous on Jul 17, 2008

that the man is happy with what happened. Where is he on record saying that?

By Eve on Jul 17, 2008

The issue here, Eve, is Todd’s story and you’re only hearing half of it.

I don’t have a problem with the full story. If you do and you believe the man was hurt, then you need to do some research, find out who he is, and interview him.

Until then.

By Anonymous on Jul 17, 2008

Anonymous
A previous post of mine is awaiting moderation:
It is a crucial part of my argument about Todd Bentley’s truthfulness. It addresses a false claim that no one attempted to verify and was accepted as truth. Todd even manifested when reading it. The Holy Spirit would have known it was untrue, surely:

This believer tested the truth or otherwise of Todd’s stories and found him to be an outright liar. Look for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toGYy-H3pCw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQquyHpwPy8&feature=user

These 2 videos show clearly how seriously and how carefully Todd Bentley’s claims are verified.
Please, for your own sake, consider this honestly.
The email in question is still on the site. I just looked.

By Eve on Jul 17, 2008

The issue is that you claim the man who was assaulted and lost his tooth was happy with that. Where is your proof? You telling me there is another “half” that cannot be verified does nothing to support your argument at all.
There is proof Todd is not telling the truth. It is available on YouTube and it does present both sides of a story. I have provided links twice here, but they are awaiting moderation.
When they are posted, I can continue with my argument, but if I am forced to debate under such censorship, I suggest you look at YouTube user shoptheliesplease.

By Eve on Jul 17, 2008

No, Eve - that is what Todd is claiming. You are calling him a liar. You prove your allegation.

If you base your knowlege on u-tube you are only getting half the story (that’s being generous) - i.e selective hearing. This is unrighteous judgement, and thus ungodly behaviour.

By Anonymous on Jul 17, 2008

Anonymous,
Perhaps you should watch the videos, (they consist of more than Todd quotes) then check his website. He is not telling the truth. If he had verified the report as claimed he would have seen it to be a fake. You can’t escape the fact he presented as true something he had not checked. Despite it being exposed, it is still on the website claiming to be the truth.
Prove to me the claim it was a set up is untrue. The claim holds water. You can read the email in his site and decode it.
I am sorry the truth is uncomfortable for you. It often hurts. For your own sake you need to consider what is really going on. If you are happy with Todd, that is your choice, but that does not change the fact his teaching does not measure up to the Bible and God does not change.
Anyone can go and check for themselves, just as I would like to check your claim about the man who lost his tooth. A pointer in the right direction would make it easier for me to see if what you are saying is so.

By Eve on Jul 17, 2008

Finally! Someone who is NOT fearful of spelling it out in black and white!

Is Todd Bentley a False Prophet? -
Is Lakeland a False Revival?

“Strong Delusion” 2 Thess. 2:11

Someone might say: “How can you imply that Todd Bentley is a false prophet?!” My reply: Because I can read. Can you read? Have you and are you daily searching the Holy Scriptures? (Jn. 5:39; Acts 17:11) If not, you have no discernment and are ultimately going to be “ashamed.” (2 Tim. 2:15; Heb. 5:11-14). Read God’s Word and repent of trusting men and not Him alone - “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart…” (Prov. 3:5-6) - “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” (Exod. 20:3)

cont’d here:
http://www.safeguardyoursoul.com/html/todd_bentley.html

Elaine

By Elaine on Jul 17, 2008

READ THE FOLLOWING VERY CAREFULLY AS THE FACTS ARE OVERLOOKED BY THOSE WHO INSIST ON FOLLOWING UNSCRIPTURAL AND ANTI-SCRIPTURAL PHILOSOPHIES AND EXPERIENCE BASED THEORIES AND FEELINGS. ONLY THE APPLICATION OF BIBLE TRUTH IS ABLE TO SAVE US FROM THE DELUSION GOD IS SENDING TO THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE AND LOVE THE TRUTH.

From the “Deception Bytes” site we have more than enough reason to conclude that Todd Bentley is just another false prophet -

Todd Bentley, who touched off the Florida outpouring (also known as the Florida Healing Revival) holds William Branham in high regard. In fact Todd Bentley claims that he now has the angel of William Branham!

This must be the same angel that Branham claims did all the supernatural works in his meeting. Did you catch that? It is not the Holy Spirit who is responsible- it is an angel!

“Do not let anyone disqualify you by making you humiliate yourself and worship angels. Such people enter into visions, which fill them with foolish pride because of their human way of thinking. They do not hold tightly to Christ, the head. It is from him that all the parts of the body are cared for and held together. So it grows in the way God wants it to grow.” — Colossians 2:18-19, NCV.

The reason Paul wrote this scripture to the Colossian church was that it was being infiltrated with Gnostic teachings.

The Gnostics valued what they experienced and what they learned from ‘angels” (AND OTHER SOURCES for that matter) over Holy Scripture. (Doesn’t this sound familiar?)

Gnostics claim they believe in scripture but do not depend on it as their source!

The following explanation of modern Gnostics come from “Angel Worship” taken from www.bibletools.org and sums up Gnosticism beautifully.

Modern Gnostics who believe in “progressive revelation” have also succumbed to this first of Satan’s ploys.

While God does reveal things to us, the critical point is that what is revealed—if it truly comes from Him—will never contradict what He has already revealed in His Word.

“God is not a man that He should lie” (Numbers 23:19).

Progressive revelation advocates believe that their revelations are more authoritative than the Bible, rather than complementing and harmonizing with it, making them ripe for satanic influence under the guise of God revealing something new to them. They may sincerely believe that God speaks to them, yet they simultaneously mistrust what He has already said in inspired Scripture.

They tend to shy away from Bible study, concluding that they do not need it since God speaks directly to them, and if there is anything important, God will let them know.

Galatians 1:8 ….”though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

This is the Word of God the final arbiter on matters of faith and truth.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 18, 2008

Elaine - you need to repent of slander and bearing false witness.

I bid you all farewell - may you happily continue with your straw man arguments and unfounded criticism.

May you also prepare to have a miserable time in heaven as there will be nothing to criticise (although I doubt that will stop you guys)- there will probably also be too much joy in God’s presence and enthusiastic worship of the King of Kings for you to be happy.

So enjoy this while you can.

By Anonymous on Jul 18, 2008

Anonymous, discard your false Jesus (your Jesus Johnson) and seek the Jesus of the Bible before it is too late for you.
Only the Jesus of the Bible is real.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 18, 2008

I really feel for Anonymous. I was in his position once - different move though. I got frustrated and angry, but if people had not persisted, I would not be where I am now, Jesus is the most important person in our salvation.
God saves us for His name’s sake. Not so we can go out on a great “jolly” as my friends would say.

Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. Isaiah 48:10-12 (KJV)

We do not deserve it in any way whatsoever. We are called to a life of obedience. As believers, we cannot earn salvation by works, but we do what pleases Him out of love. We find out what pleases Him in scripture.

So many have abandoned the Bible, they do what seems right to themselves, much as in the day of Judges. That led to awful things. Anyone who accepts Todd Bentley’s teaching takes on conduct that the Bible forbids. That does not please God, it grieves Him. He loves us and wants the best for us. He knows the consequences and longs for us to repent.
We must not keep silent. Too many of us have not spoken out in the past and this is where it has led.
Jesus is coming back. He says:
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
Luke 18:7-8 (KJV)
The hint is that the faithful will be very few.
Watch and pray, that you will be included in that number when he comes.

By Eve on Jul 18, 2008

That’s the Jesus I believe in, Wayne, and who I am obedient to, Eve - so if He is the same one you believe in and obey - see you in heaven.

By Anonymous on Jul 18, 2008

Anonymous,

I do not need to repent of slander nor bearing false witness! BTW, there is NO staw man argument that you keep harping on, sir or madame. I have made my position abundantly clear from Scripture.

God is Immutable, He does not change.

Matt. 12:36-37
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

By Elaine on Jul 18, 2008

Yep - and you will give an account for every word spoken against your brother and sister in Christ. I pray that the Lord will open the eyes of your heart and that you repent of slander and bearing of false witness based on corrupting the scriptures - before then.

In Christ.

By Anonymous on Jul 18, 2008

Anonymous, you will also give an account for this “May you also prepare to have a miserable time in heaven as there will be nothing to criticise (although I doubt that will stop you guys)- there will probably also be too much joy in God’s presence and enthusiastic worship of the King of Kings for you to be happy.”

I pray that Sovereign God would grant unto YOU the gift of repentance unto salvation.

Below is what I believe, just posting it so there will be No straw man argument from you again.

SOLA SCRIPTURA : Scripture alone is the inerrant and authoritative rule of church life. It is the only source of divine revelation.

SOLUS CHRISTUS : Salvation relies on Jesus Christ’s substitutionary atonement alone.

SOLA GRATIA : We are saved from God’s judgment by His grace alone. Salvation is in no sense a human work.

SOLA FIDE : Justification is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

SOLI DEO GLORIA : Worship is a whole of life commitment to God alone. The law and the gospel cannot be neglected or confused with entertainment, self-improvement, self-esteem or self-fulfillment.

The work of the cross can be summarized in four words: redemption, propitiation, justification, and reconciliation.

Spiritual security is the biblical teaching that a Christian is not only saved by God’s grace and power, but he is also kept by it.

John the apostle of our Lord Jesus Christ wrote: - “Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him (bid him God speed - AV) for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds (biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds - AV)” - 2 John 9-11. This is THE WORD OF THE LORD.

By Elaine on Jul 18, 2008

Some of our conversation above seems to be degenerating somewhat into a defence of our respective positions on Bentley, Lakeland, etc … and is almost “Yes it is” “No it’s not” argumentation. Seeking the truth about this man and his ministry, should be leading each of us to edify one another - love one another & speak the truth to one another are not mutually exclusive, so let’s not be dismissive of a different opinion to the one we may hold.
For your thoughtful consideration, & with warm regards to each reader

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 18, 2008

Paul,
thanks for that. I agree with Elaine wholeheartedly about what the Gospel is. I wonder, though, how we are to put the truth to each other without expressing it. If something is plain in scripture or is an event that can be evidenced how else are we to address it?
I agree we should be putting things in a loving way, and am aware that in print things can be taken in ways we did not expect when we wrote them. That is the nature of written communication. I can only speak for myself in the end, but I have always understood a plea to someone to repent to be a caring act. We do not want the other person to suffer the awful consequences of sin. I accept Anonymous’ statements to me in that vein as I mean it that way myself. We have to accept, too, that others may not agree with us about their actions and attitudes. Or they may be unwilling to give up something they know is wrong. Whatever the reason, it is between the person themselves and God.
I have reason to be grateful to someone who persisted with me some years ago. It was a very similar issue. I did not accept their counsel for some time and I thought them harsh and hypocritical at the time. Truth is, when I sought God myself, wanting His will and not my own, I discovered I could not have been more wrong. If nobody had told me clearly and precisely what I was doing wrong, and if they had not pointed out the heresy I was believing as Truth I would be totally lost today.
They had sought the Truth and told me what it was in love. It did not feel that way at the time.
I was shown that what was taught was not in the Bible. I was shown the lie it contained etc. I see so many parallels here I am scared for those who accept unbiblical teaching, undisciplined teachers and false prophecies associated with the Lakeland phenomenon.

I have been there. I was in error. Someone cared enough to suffer my abuse to snatch me from the fire. I cannot sit back while fellow believers are deceived by unscrupulous men and women or by other deceived souls. I must try to stop them from missing out on so wonderful a salvation.

By Eve on Jul 18, 2008

Fortunately - Elaine and Eve are not the way the truth and the life, Jesus is.

Most fortunately for me they will not be my judge when I stand before the immutable, omnipotent,omniscient, wonderful God. Who will judge me on the basis of my relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and the fact that I have put my faith in His atoning work on the cross.

I have made it abundantly clear that I believe in the Jesus of scripture and the gospel as paul laid down in 1 Cor:15.

So do those whom you throw allegations at - based on malicious gossip and misconceptions. Quoting scripture while doing so just makes it peverse. This is not godly behaviour - it is unbiblical and conflicts with sound doctrine.

By Anonymous on Jul 18, 2008

Anonymous, you are still missing the point.

If you accept delusion and deviate from the true pathway to follow a false Jesus (which I have referred to as your Jesus Johnson)you are effectively condemning yourself. Bible believing Christians are simply trying to help you to get on track or back on track if you have genuinely followed the bible Jesus at some point in your life.

The reason we know Todd Bentley is false is well defined in the reference you MUST repeatedly ignore in order to maintain your FALSE position.

READ THE FOLLOWING VERY CAREFULLY AS THE FACTS ARE OVERLOOKED BY THOSE WHO INSIST ON FOLLOWING UNSCRIPTURAL AND ANTI-SCRIPTURAL PHILOSOPHIES AND EXPERIENCE BASED THEORIES AND FEELINGS. ONLY THE APPLICATION OF BIBLE TRUTH IS ABLE TO SAVE US FROM THE DELUSION GOD IS SENDING TO THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE AND LOVE THE TRUTH.

From the “Deception Bytes” site we have more than enough reason to conclude that Todd Bentley is just another false prophet -

Todd Bentley, who touched off the Florida outpouring (also known as the Florida Healing Revival) holds William Branham in high regard. In fact Todd Bentley claims that he now has the angel of William Branham!

This must be the same angel that Branham claims did all the supernatural works in his meeting. Did you catch that? It is not the Holy Spirit who is responsible- it is an angel!

“Do not let anyone disqualify you by making you humiliate yourself and worship angels. Such people enter into visions, which fill them with foolish pride because of their human way of thinking. They do not hold tightly to Christ, the head. It is from him that all the parts of the body are cared for and held together. So it grows in the way God wants it to grow.” — Colossians 2:18-19, NCV.

The reason Paul wrote this scripture to the Colossian church was that it was being infiltrated with Gnostic teachings.

The Gnostics valued what they experienced and what they learned from ‘angels” (AND OTHER SOURCES for that matter) over Holy Scripture. (Doesn’t this sound familiar?)

Gnostics claim they believe in scripture but do not depend on it as their source!

The following explanation of modern Gnostics come from “Angel Worship” taken from www.bibletools.org and sums up Gnosticism beautifully.

Modern Gnostics who believe in “progressive revelation” have also succumbed to this first of Satan’s ploys.

While God does reveal things to us, the critical point is that what is revealed—if it truly comes from Him—will never contradict what He has already revealed in His Word.

“God is not a man that He should lie” (Numbers 23:19).

Progressive revelation advocates believe that their revelations are more authoritative than the Bible, rather than complementing and harmonizing with it, making them ripe for satanic influence under the guise of God revealing something new to them. They may sincerely believe that God speaks to them, yet they simultaneously mistrust what He has already said in inspired Scripture.

They tend to shy away from Bible study, concluding that they do not need it since God speaks directly to them, and if there is anything important, God will let them know.

Galatians 1:8 ….”though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

This is the Word of God the final arbiter on matters of faith and truth.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 19, 2008

Wayne, my name is not Johnson and I do not follow, believe, or preach any other Jesus than the one in scripture this is the point you are missing. You are also making general sweeping statements. I, and those being falsely accused - also believe that whatever we believe God is saying to us while in prayer - must never contradict the Bible.

By Anonymous on Jul 19, 2008

BTW everybody - did you see the comment by Roger? This is the guy that had stage 4 cancer about which all the fuss was made on the other post. He makes it clear that 1)he was not hurt when Bentley knee’d him 2) the doctors are astounded at his recovery 3)the video of Bentley praying for him was cut and edited with a crucial part in the middle missing (Eve it seems you think that this deception is acceptable).

Philip you owe todd Bentley and Stephen Strader an apology for claiming this was staged.

By Anonymous on Jul 19, 2008

You were the one who falsely informed us that your name was Tim Johnson.
You are the one refusing to accept the truth. You are the only one on this blog who is unwilling to stand behind your comments (dodgy as they are) openly by revealing your real name.
You have wilfully told us that your name was Tim Johnson knowing it to be false.
This is why I keep referring to your Jesus Johnson.
It is because your Jesus is as false as you. That is why this scripture s for you and all like you:

The Bible repeatedly warns us about the proliferation of false Christs in the last days. Paul often warns about those who would pervert the Gospel of Christ. In 2 Thessalonians 2 verses 11 and 12 Paul states ….”for this cause God shall send strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
Should we “Prove (JUDGE) ALL things: hold fast to that which is good” in accordance with the scriptures or should we follow the Gnostic teachings of the “anointed ones?”

My family and I intend, to the best of our ability, and by the grace of God, to remain faithful to the Word of God and the God of the Bible for as long as possible.

We sincerely hope and pray that we will avoid the delusion right up until the Judgement Day.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 19, 2008

Anonymous, you need to apologise to all those people who have been trying to lead you to the Jesus of the Bible and whom you have repeatedly slandered and bludgeoned with falsehood.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 19, 2008

Anonymous, it is a fact, NOT a sweeping statement that Todd Bentley, who touched off the Florida outpouring (also known as the Florida Healing Revival) holds William Branham in high regard. In fact Todd Bentley claims that he now has the angel of William Branham!

SEE DECEPTION BYTES FOR MORE STARTLING INFORMATION AND FACTS ABOUT THIS DELUSION.

This “EMMA” must be the same angel that Branham claims did all the supernatural works in his meeting. Did you catch that? It is not the Holy Spirit who is responsible- it is an angel!

This is more than enough reason to discard this nonsense as FALSE.

ONLY THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE CAN SAVE US ON THE JUDGEMENT DAY.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 19, 2008

Anonymous, it is a statement of FACT, NOT a sweeping statement that Todd Bentley, who touched off the Florida outpouring (also known as the Florida Healing Revival) holds William Branham in high regard.

In fact Todd Bentley claims that he now has the angel of William Branham!

Ask him yourself.

SEE DECEPTION BYTES FOR MORE STARTLING INFORMATION AND FACTS ABOUT THIS DELUSION.

This “EMMA” must be the same angel that Branham claims did all the supernatural works in his meeting. Did you catch that? It is not the Holy Spirit who is responsible- it is an angel!

This is more than enough reason to discard this nonsense as FALSE.

ONLY THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE CAN SAVE US ON THE JUDGEMENT DAY.

The rest of the statement is predominantly scripture references or teaching based on scripture.

You use the term “sweeping statements” the same way as you use the truth and I particularly refer to your telling us that your name is Tim Johnson and now informing us that that was another falsehood.
Your persistent refusal to identify yourself as anything other than “anonymous” is consistent with the standard of your DELUSION BASHING ARGUMENTATION.

AVOID THE DELUSION BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE - SEEK THE TRUTH AS IT HAS BEEN REVEALED TO US IN THE WORD OF GOD THE SEEK THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE FOR SALVATION.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 19, 2008

Wayne - you need help

By Anonymous on Jul 19, 2008

Are we becoming vitriolic toward each other?
The quest for truth at times IS tough, and it is a lifelong discipline to be engaged in - does this mean we should necessarily harm one another with our words in this virtuous process?
Please consider.

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 19, 2008

Anonymous, You need the Lord Jesus Christ before it is too late.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 19, 2008

Anonymous, you have been making unbiblical and anti-biblical (Gnostic) statements under the cloak of anonymity.

You have refused to identify yourself and have now confessed to being dishonest and deceptive by informing us that you are not who you claimed to be.

You have persistently refused to accept the counsel of scripture from very well meaning bible believing christians who have been rightly concerned with your spiritual well being.

You insist on following people who have been shown to be discredited by virtue of their alienation from the clear teachings of scripture.

GNOSTICISM IS A SINFUL DEPARTURE FROM THE WORD OF GOD LEADING TO ETERNAL DAMNATION.

NB. See the DECEPTION BYTES article I have been repeatedly urging you to read very carefully.

You have, in fact, provided no evidence whatsoever of a salvation experience with the Jesus of the Bible but much evidence of a “relationship” of some kind with a clearly unbiblical or false Jesus.

There is no benefit to any of us in persistent refusal to accept the Truth as revealed to us in the Word of God.

i urge you to turn towards the Jesus of the Bible before it is too late for you.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 19, 2008

Wayne - the modern equivalent of Gnosticism is represented by groups such as Scientology and Christian Science. In those groups is found another Jesus than the one both you and I believe in.

By Anonymous on Jul 20, 2008

Anonymous,

You believe in a Jesus that heals by violence. That is not the Jesus of the Bible - it is ‘another Jesus’ my friend.

And incidentally, the question of whether one is hurt or healed is somewhat moot, as it is the ‘practice’ and the ‘doctrine’ that are unscriptural. On that there is no argument for healing by violence cannot be found in the Bible - not one verse.

The end does not justify the means, neither does it identify the source.

However, your persistence and determination to believe such experiences will probably continue - so I shall leave you to it m’dear.

By Anonymous on Jul 20, 2008

Anonymous, you are obviously unaware of what is going on in so-called christian churches today. Have a look at the experiences being shared by many people in these blog sites.
The apostasy referred to repeatedly in the scriptures is very real within so-called christian churches TODAY. You allow yourself to be subject to the delusion if you permit yourself to remain ignorant of this FACT.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 20, 2008

Anonymous,

Apostasy refers to a turning away from the truth to follow false or anti-christ teaching. The groups you refer to have never followed the TRUTH revealed to us in the Word of God and have therefore NOT turned away from it. Nor do they require God to send them a delusion to test their faithfulness to the Word of God. These people have accepted falsehood from the outset.

The falsehood based on the delusion God sends to those who refuse to believe or remain faithful to the Word of God occurs when experience and opinion is allowed free rein regardless of the clear teaching of Scripture.

This is why my former Pastor informed me that he was ‘NOT INTERESTED IN BIBLE DOCTRINE: I AM ONLY INTERESTED IN MY ANOINTING.”

This mind set is the foundation of GNOSTIC teachings and practices.

People who choose to be scripturally ignorant and spiritually naive therefore base their faith on “false and lying” signs and wonders and other phenomena which occur at the soulish or experiential level.

These signs and wonders may in fact be real to those lacking spiritual perception but knowledge and understanding of the scriptures along with the spiritual perception gained from consistent application of and obedience to the Word of God facilitates clear discernment as to the source and purpose of those signs and wonders and whatever else you choose to base your faith on.

In accordance with the clear teaching of scripture I am expecting a virtual flood of lying signs wonders and GNOSTIC teachings in these last days before the return of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The bible teaches that unless God intervenes even the very elect will be deceived by these GNOSTIC events and raises the question about whether Jesus will actually find faith (real BIBLICAL faith) in the earth at all on His return.

The very elect are those who remain faithful to the clear teaching of Scripture in spite of all the false competing thoughts, opinions and ideas going around at the time.

The temptation to conform to peer pressure, particularly within these apostate churches is a major barrier to biblical christian living and always has been, as this is usually the basis of social acceptance.

Unless your faith is based solely on the teachings of the Word of God the “Jesus” you are serving is a false Christ and you are leaving yourself open to ongoing deception.

The Bible teaches that most people will be deceived by these false and GNOSTIC teachings and that only the faithful remnant will be saved on the Judgement Day.

The way of the Lord is straight and narrow the way of the world is wide and broad, experientially and opinion based and very definitely GNOSTICALLY driven.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 20, 2008

Anonymous,
I am sorry. I should have left things alone. I should have let you carry on in error, ignoring the warnings of Scripture, some of them the very words of Jesus Himself. Bound for the lake of fire. That would have been the loving, Christian thing to do.
I am sorry to have offended you.

For once, what I have posted is not true. The above paragraph is what you would like me to say. At least if I read you right. However, If I did that, I would be failing in my Christian duty, disobeying God. He is the one who decides what is right. None of us can do that. Not me. Not you.
I never claimed to be the Way, the Truth or the Life, I merely quoted the one who is. If you do not heed His warnings, you will be deceived. Will you accept a scorpion when your heavenly Father would give you an egg?
Healing that is brought about by violence is deception. The man may well be healed, but not by God. You have to look at the source. The Bible does not say anywhere that healings prove God is at work. We are to look at men’s lives and teaching to determine the source of their power.
I pray God will persevere with you as he did me. I know how you feel. I once walked where you walk. I understand what is at stake.

By Eve on Jul 20, 2008

Eve, your accusation that the man is healed by Satan is no different to the accusations brought by the Pharisees against Jesus. This is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

By Anonymous on Jul 20, 2008

Wayne,

“In accordance with the clear teaching of scripture I am expecting a virtual flood of lying signs wonders and GNOSTIC teachings in these last days before the return of the Lord Jesus Christ.”
I CONCUR!

I believe this Third Wave will have the same effect as a Tsunami.

Prayer from 1599 Geneva Bible

…And because thou hast commanded us to pray one for another, we do not only make request (O Lord) for ourselves, and for them that thou hast already called to the true understanding of thy heavenly will, but for all people and nations of the world, who as they know by thy wonderful works, that thou art God over all, so they may be instructed by thy holy Spirit, to believe in thee, their only Savior and Redeemer, but forasmuch as they cannot believe, except they hear, nor cannot hear but by preaching, and none can preach, except he be sent: therefore (O Lord) raise up faithful distributors of thy mysteries, who setting apart all worldly respects, may both in their life and doctrine only seek thy glory. Continually confound Satan, Antichrist, with all hirelings, whom thou hast already cast off into a reprobate sense, that they may not by sects, schisms, heresies, and errors, disquiet thy little flock. And because, O Lord, we be fallen into the latter days and dangerous times, wherein ignorance hath gotten the upper hand, and Satan by his Ministers seeks by all means to quench the light of the Gospel: we beseech thee to maintain thy cause against those ravening Wolves and strengthen all thy servants, whom they keep in prison and bondage.

By Elaine on Jul 20, 2008

Anonymous,

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit:

1. It concerns the ministry of Christ not men, where HIS power came from when He was on the earth. This is why it says blasphemy of the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven men “neither in this world, neither IN THE WORLD TO COME”, when Jesus is once again upon the earth (Matt. 12:32)

2. The Pharisees accused Jesus of having “an unclean spirit”, IN SPITE OF His biblical credentials and adherence to scripture (Mark 3:30). Whilst we cannot judge the heart of a man, we can certainly judge from the scriptures whether their doctrine and practices are demonstrative of the Spirit of God or not - and indeed are told to.

I would think that attributing anything to God that goes beyond the pages of His Word (and indeed negates it) is true blasphemy.

By Gillian on Jul 20, 2008

Anonymous,
I made no such accusation! I just said it is not God.
there is a world of difference between what I said and what the Pharisees said about Jesus. Todd Bentley is not Jesus.
In any case such an accusation would only be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit was doing the healing.
You and I disagree about that. I have explained at length here as have others why we believe He is not the one bringing this outpouring.

You need to demonstrate to us from Scripture that God works in the way you say he does. All you seem to do is twist our words and accuse us of blasphemy with no basis in Scripture.

If God is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever, there would be some clue there that he works like this. I have yet to find it.

If you have scriptures that show partial healing, healing by kicking and punching, lying about checking out resurrections etc, angels bringing revivals, gold dust, gold fillings,boasting about dreams and visions, having to go to a particular place to get the blessing, people falling on their backs, manifestations of twitching, convulsing, laughing, and prophesies that don’t come true as being legitimate works of the Holy Spirit, then show me that I may learn.

By Eve on Jul 20, 2008

Eve, If God did not heal Roger - then who did?

By Anonymous on Jul 20, 2008

If you understand that God is immutable then you need to accept that if He has always done unprecedented things - as we see recorded throughout Scripture - then we can expect Him to continue doing unprecedented things. He did not need anyone’s permission thousands of years ago to do something people had not seen before, and He does not need our permission now.

By Anonymous on Jul 20, 2008

Anonymous,
I have asked you a question. Please give me Scriptures that show me it is of God.
There are other explanations of healing. It is not for me to say which one happened here, but I will say I know spiritualist mediums who have healed people - physical illnesses completely gone. Would you attribute their success to God?
Is it necessarily Satan himself? - Does it matter? - Only that it is NOT the Holy Spirit.

All I am certain of is that God does not work this way.
Do you have any Scripture to show that the things I listed are of the Holy Spirit?

Jesus says it is possible to heal the sick and not know him.

For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.
Mark 13:22 (ANIV)

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before
Matt 24:24-25 (KJV)

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Matt 7:21-23 (ANIV)

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thess 2:9-10 (KJV)

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up
Gal 6:7-9 (ANIV) - so many have said in their testimonies they could wait no longer for God to move. Many have chosen to accept the counterfeit because they lost patience with God.

The counterfeit will be so like the truth, those who do not apply the tests will be conned.

That is why we should look for the fruit of the Spirit, not the miracles, as they will be faked by the enemy - even healings Jesus warned us on many occasions. If we let ourselves be deceived after so many warnings, we only have aurselves to blame.

Please go back to Scripture. Look at the fruit of the Spirit, search it. Where does God say he works in the way I asked about? If it is there, I really want to know.

See:

I say then, conduct yourselves by the spirit, and you will not then gratify the animal passions.
17 for the vicious desires are contrary to those of the spirit, and the inclinations of the spirit are contrary to those of the animal part; these are opposite to each other, so that you do not the things that you would.
18 but if you are governed by the spirit, you are not subject to the law.
19 now the effects of vicious passions are manifestly these, fornication, uncleanness,
20 brutality, idolatry, poisoning, enmities, quarrels, emulations, animosities, strife, seditions, factions, envyings,
21 drunkenness, revellings, and such like, concerning which I forewarn you now, as heretofore I have done, that they who practise such vices, shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 but the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, sweetness of disposition, beneficence, faithfulness, meekness, temperance:
23 against such there is no law.
24 now they who belong to Christ, have crucified the animal nature with the affections and passions thereof.
25 if we live by the spirit, let us regulate our actions by the spirit:
Gal 5:16-25

By Eve on Jul 20, 2008

Anonymous,

I have finally accepted that we cannot help you.

You are not just biblically illiterate, NOR are you simply a misinformed christian.

You are actually peddling an entirely new religion based on you and your experiences and opinions and your relationship with your “Jesus Johnson” or whoever he may be should you ever decide to be open and honest.

On behalf of all bible believing christians who have been trying to help you find the truth I must reiterate that your Jesus Johnson cannot save you on the Judgement Day. Only the Jesus Christ of the Bible is able to save us.

If you persist with your false religion you are in for a very rude shock on the judgement day. Be warned.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 20, 2008

Eve, it does matter who heals when one is trusting in Jesus to do so by the power of the Holy Spirit. If the source of supernatural healing is not God - then it can only be Satan, there is not a 3rd supernatural source.

Those scriptures you quoted pertain to works of the flesh. The bible is absolutely clear what these are, as you quoted: fornication, uncleanness, brutality, idolatry, poisoning, enmities, quarrels, emulations, animosities, strife, seditions, factions, envyings, drunkenness, revellings.These are not talking about having good clean fun in the presence of God. People thought that the apostles were drunk on the day of Pentecost - because obviously their antics were the same as drunk people. Those of us who have experienced this identify with that and can discern the difference between being drunk on wine and drunk in the Spirit - the one is bad the other is good and biblical. If Paul wrote ‘Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit’(Eph 5:18) - it is because of his understanding and experience of there being a comparison between the two – you cannot compare apples with oranges. Drunk in wine leads to debauchery but being drunk as a result of being filled in the Spirit leads to the fruit of the Spirit. Like I said, God does not need your or my permission to do signs and wonders (if a sign does not make you wonder then it is not a wonder), It is blasphemous to call things that the Holy Spirit is doing as Satanic or demonic.

By Anonymous on Jul 20, 2008

Anonymous,
Of course it matters. It matters,too,which Jesus you are trusting. I have to agree with Wayne that the Jesus you trust is not the one in the Bible.
Yes, the verses I quoted do refer to the works of the flesh. You cannot compare apples with oranges. Neither will it work to declare an apple is an orange, you cannot make marmalade that way.
Drunkenness is of the Flesh. There is no such thing as being drunk in the Spirit.
We are to be filled. The evidence of that is the fruit of the Spirit. That includes self control and gentleness. Both of which are lacking at Lakeland. What we see there is people appearing drunk and having no self control and a man who uses violence instead of gentleness. Works of the flesh.

If you cannot see that what happens there is fleshly, you are in serious error. If you persist in it God says he will let you continue in it but that does not make it right.

Ephesians 5:18 is talking about 2 completely different things, apples and oranges if you like. Being drunk as opposed to not being drunk. Not about 2 different ways of being drunk.
How could Peter have been behaving like a drunk on the day of Pentecost? Ministers I have seen in that state are incapable of preaching, He preached the most amazing sermon in church history that day - logical, coherent, challenging. They also said they were NOT DRUNK, not that they were drunk in the Spirit. Believe their testimony if you won’t believe me.

They were NOT DRUNK, they were PROPHESYING.

These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 ” ‘In the last days, God says,

I will pour out my Spirit on all people.

Your sons and daughters will prophesy,

your young men will see visions,

your old men will dream dreams.

18 Even on my servants, both men and women,

I will pour out my Spirit in those days,

and they will prophesy.
Acts 2:15-18 (ANIV)

Believe me, as one who has tried all three, being filled and having self control is by far the best. From what I have seen, being ‘drunk in the spirit’ does not lead to self control or gentleness, patience or kindness. It cannot be the Holy Spirit if these things do not result.

BTW God can do signs and wonders whenever and wherever he wants. He does, however, tell us how to recognise his work. It is not blasphemous to point out when someone’s claim does not measure up. It would be blasphemous, I’m sure, to say He is in something when He says he does not work in a particular way.

May I ask how you suppose Christians could be deceived by obvious Satanic/demonic miracles?
The enemy is more subtle than that. He will make things look mostly right and add a little bit of error to slip things by us. Lakeland is a prime example of that.

By Eve on Jul 21, 2008

None so blind as those who will not see

When last did you go into a pub and see someone prophesying so that if this happened outside at 9am - people would draw a comparison with drunkenness?

To see debauchery - take a look at the nighlife areas on a Friday night in UK cities.

To see Gnosticism and a different gospel to the evangelical gospel as laid down by the Apostle Paul in 1 Cor.15 – take a look at Scientology and Christian Science.

To see wolves and the leaven of the Pharisees including slander, malicious gossip, pettifogging, straining at gnats while swallowing camels, and the bearing of false witness – take a look at the prolific heresy hunters’ & self-appointed watchdogs’ websites and publications, masquerading as ‘Discernment’, ‘Journalism’ and ‘Apologetics.’

To see deception – take a look at the u-tube videos put up by heresy hunters, et al; which are spliced, edited, and captioned to put Christians whom they attack in a bad light.

To see violent and ungodly behaviour – take a look at the vitriolic attacks and character assassinations on heresy hunters et al websites; as well as death threats made against the ministers they attack, and the stealing of their online identities.

Otherwise you are barking up the wrong tree.

Happy straw-man arguing.

In Christ

By Anonymous on Jul 21, 2008

Anonymous,
I do not understand your first remark. People prophesying do not look drunk. Today we might say of someone “you’re all mad” because we do not want to face up to what they say. That does not mean they act mad, just we disagree. These men did not agree that they were drunk - even in the Spirit!

There is more to Gnosticism than the religions you mention, bit I have not played the Gnosticism card.

For me to slander, what I say must be untrue. To bear false witness, what I say must be untrue. If I say what I see or hear and that person has done or said those things, I have not committed these offences. So, sorry, not guilty.

The Youtube clips may be edited. But Todd did kick that woman. He did say that. He did legdrop the pastor - unless he is lying. Are you saying he was not telling the truth?

I certainly do not make death threats, neither has anyone else here. To suggest we have would be slander, false witness.
How about answering the questions I asked in previous posts.

What about the unbiblical behaviour at Lakeland?

Are you really telling me that it is done decently and in order and this drunken, violent behaviour is Scriptural? I say again, if it is there, show me!

I am not asking for much, you say it is of God, where does His Word, the Bible tell me this behaviour is of God? As I showed before, Jesus himself warned us that miracles and signs prove nothing, even if we say and believe we are doing them in His name.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Matt 7:21-23 (ANIV)

They may be doing signs and wonders but are they obedient to him?

“If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you for ever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you
John 14:15-17 (ANIV)

Interestingly, too, Jesus said the Spirit is with us and in us. We don’t have to go to Lakeland, Dudley or anywhere else to get more!

By Eve on Jul 21, 2008

Eve, I know that people who prophesy do not look drunk – that is precisely my point. There must have been something else occurring with the disciples, which gave the impression that they were drunk.

Of course there is more to Gnosticism than those religions – but they are good examples. That post was not just addressed to you. Some here have played the Gnosticism card - and this is a straw-man argument.

In my last post I was not accusing you. I drew your attention to the places where you can see things like debauchery, deception, slander etc.

You seem to be okay with the deception of those u-tube videos. Many obviously believe that the people being vilified are fair game and that the ends justify the means. This is completely ungodly and perverse.

Things are done at Lakeland decently and in order as far as human endeavours are concerned – what God does might be a bit different to what you consider decently and in order according to your culture – but His ways are not our ways.

The results at Lakeland are good – people have come away healed, set free from demonic oppression, healed from depression, set free from sinful habits [such as pornography] and are producing fruits of the Spirit in their daily walk with the Lord. As well as a returning to their first love God. These are just some examples of the biblical results.

I did not accuse you of making death threats – however you are very wrong that none have been made.

Again you quote Matt 7:21-23 – again the obvious point that Jesus was making is that we need to know Him. This is true for those who have performed signs and wonders and call Him Lord – as much as those who do not perform signs and wonders and call Him Lord.

Indeed if we love Him we must obey Him – and this is precisely what the folk who minister and go to Lakeland are endeavouring to do.

You are right that we do not have to go to Lakeland to get more of God. However, there is no law against many people from many nations coming together to worship Jesus.

By Anonymous on Jul 21, 2008

I salute the true shepherds who are watching over Jesus’ sheep; Bill Randles, Jacob Prasch, Mike Oppeneheimer, James Sundquist and Philip Powell.

Here is an eye witness account, read it and weep.
FIRST-PERSON: Faith & healing — Where’s the evidence?

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28460

Please re-read James Sundquist’s post on June 26.

By Elaine on Jul 21, 2008

Anonymous,
If the people at Lakeland are obeying him, why are they doing things Scripure does not support? Until you can show me that what they do is acceptable to God from Scripture, then I have to ask you that again.

Where is the deception in the YouTube clips? I agree that putting together a number of clips of Todd describing and doing violent acts may give the impression that is all he does, if edited a certain way, and that may at times be misleading, but it’s unavoidable. It is no different from the way you make your points, highlighting relevant details. It is, however, based on the truth - as Todd did do and say these things. If it is not him in the videos, please tell me who it is. If Todd had not done and said these terrible things, the compilation videos could not have been made. Even out of context, there can be no doubt that they happened. But the real point is, be does do violent acts to worshippers and sick people and then says God told him to!

This violence is not a fruit of the Spirit it is evidence of the works of the flesh. God did not tell him to do it.

If we do not have to go to Lakeland, why is there an emphasis on “come and get some”… “take it back” etc? I have watched many of the broadcasts and seen this over and over.
If the disciples were drunk in the Spirit, why did Peter insist they were not drunk?

As I said before, being filled with the Spirit is opposite to being drunk with wine. Appearing drunk would have to entail lack of self control, something not evident at Pentecost. People behaving like the Lakeland folk could not have preached as they did, nor have safely baptized thousands in a day.

Todd Bentley preaches a gospel brought by angels that is different from Gospel of Scripture. To follow it is to be disobedient to the revealed will of God in Scripture:

“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”
Gal 1:8-9 (ANIV)

To ask me to accept Todd Bentley as a preacher from God, you are asking me to be disobedient to what God says in the Bible. Unless you can show me that preachers can assault people in the will of God, or change the Gospel by special revelation, and the other things I mentioned earlier [that you have yet to address], this discussion is going nowhere. You need to accept what Scripture says, not what you would like it to say.
If I am wrong about what it says, then show me. That is the only thing that would change my mind.

By Eve on Jul 21, 2008

I agree with Wayne,

Anonymous, my friend, you display an incredible amount of scriptural ignorance and a lack of biblical understanding.

However, you are not alone, sadly. There will always be those that continue to ‘wrest’ the scriptures whilst others simply believe and ‘rest’ IN them.

“Folly is joy to him that is destitute of wisdom” Proverbs 15:21

By Gillian on Jul 21, 2008

Elaine,
reading that post the other day, I could not help but wonder how people can defend such men as the leaders of this move and have no care for those they run roughshod over.
My heart goes out to this family. They and many others have been treated cruelly. Obviously, those in charge of the meeting know very well that people are notgoing to be healed. Why else would they deceive people and lie like that?
These people trusted and believed. They were lied to. If this move was of God, that would just not happen.

By Eve on Jul 21, 2008

None so blind as those who will not see

By Anonymous on Jul 21, 2008

Eve,

You asked, “I could not help but wonder how people can defend such men as the leaders of this move and have no care for those they run roughshod over.”

My answer is $MONEY$

Eve:”If this move was of God, that would just not happen.”

My answer: Exactly! It’s NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

I agree with you and all the Scriptures you have posted.

Consider these.
Matt. 4:8-10
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Satan’s goal is to be worshipped….

I, too, agree with Wayne and Gillian, along with James Sundquist: we don’t have to hunt for the heresy……it’s in our faces.

“Truth is hate, to those who hate Truth.”

By Elaine on Jul 21, 2008

Anon, you are wasting your time. It is no wonder the bible tells us not to eat with slanderers, these people confuse faultfinding with truth. It is amusing how they accuse anyone who has a theological view different to their own as being ‘biblically illiterate’. One wonders if they’ve read that God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.

By Matt on Jul 21, 2008

Truth is still truth, even if no one believes it. Falsehood is still false, even if everyone believes it.

By Elaine on Jul 21, 2008

Dear Matt,

Methinks your concern should be for those who have a different ‘theological view’ from GOD.

If you believe that those who cannot support their notions from scripture should not be ‘found fault’ with, then perhaps they should post something that cannot be biblically faulted.

You may also wish to read Psalm 119, where the ‘proud’ are they who do not keep God’s commandments and forge lies against those who do. Or perhaps 1st Timothy 6, where the ‘proud’ are those who ‘know nothing’ and who consent not to the words of Christ or His doctrine, being ‘destitute of the truth.’

Lastly, you need to look up the proper definition of ’slander’.

By Gillian on Jul 21, 2008

Yep Elaine - but you are not the measurement of truth, Jesus is.

By Anonymous on Jul 21, 2008

Gillian, slander (as defined by the dictionary), as well as the bearing of false witness, goes against the commandments of God, as well as sound doctrine. Hope you repent.

By Anonymous on Jul 21, 2008

Yep, Anon, and neither are you the measurement of truth, nor did I ever in the least indicate that I was.

Ah, selective reading again, I see.

John 10
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

By Elaine on Jul 21, 2008

Anonymous

*laughing*

Slander always concerns ‘false’ reports concerning someone’s reputation. If the reports are ‘true’ no slander has occurred.

By Gillian on Jul 21, 2008

Doesn’t “slander” in the NT refer to any conversation (spoken or written) that defames or vilifies someone - whether what is said is false, partially true, or fully true?
In current English usage (in Australia, at least) the word does only refer to untruths - and we recognise that translators are not necessarily familiar with differences of shades of meaning of legal terms that occur between nations’ legal systems.
Therefore the broader understanding of slander is applicable (if I understand koine Greek’s sense of meaning correctly).
.
For your considered reflection fellow-contributors.

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 21, 2008

Hi Paul,

For your consideration, before I leave the ’slander definition debate’

Romans 3:8 - Paul gives the N.T. biblical definition of slanderous reports as being accused of saying something that was not said. In the O.T., Numbers 14:36 - 7, 2nd Sam. 19:27, Psalm 31:13, and Proverbs 10:18 all mention slander in regards to a false report. Jer. 6 & 9 also mention slanders as synonymous with corruption and lies.

Otherwise, if slander included true reports, even Jesus could be accused of ’slandering’ the Pharisees and scribes - after all He called them ‘hypocrites’, ‘blind guides’ ‘whitewashed sepulchres’, ‘devourers of widows houses’, ‘pretenders’ ‘children of hell’ etc.

God bless you…

By Gillian on Jul 21, 2008

Yes, the meanings of slander do present such an enigma - and those who function in a prophetic role tread a fine line (such as generally occurs on this website’s blogs).
It’s quite easy for us to shift the subject of our warnings from erroneous teachings and practices which we reject rightly, over to a personification of them, whom we criticise obsessively. We attack the person rather than the problem.
The prophet needs to be wise in their alarm calls. We need to be clear about the issues at stake - and to articulate them carefully, and to give our audience specific examples. This blog addresses certain aspects of Bentley’s ministry & I personally am glad for that, & for the inclusion above of a copy of his own emailed statement. Other serious areas of concern include the growing acceptance in self-identified “Spirit-filled” circles, of a unitarian theology & also an acceptance of William Branham’s peculiar (& often erroneous) teachings. Maybe blogs could be created to address these too?
I do have a genuine concern at the tone of language that has been used on occasions, and it should be clear that this is my concern as I am not trying to curtail well warranted Biblically-based discussions.

The LORD bless you.

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 21, 2008

God bless you too Paul.

In 2 Thessalonians 2 verse 15 Paul advises the brethren in Christ to ….”stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word of by our epistle.”

I note your concern and refer you, and all the Bible-believing Christians on this site, to the following passages of scripture and urge you to apply them to these people who would pervert the Christian gospel

Paul says in Galatians 1 verse 8 …..”though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

The Apostle Paul gave the instruction in Galatians 1 verse 9 …..”if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received let him be accursed.”

This is the biblical way to deal with these people who are perverting the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The apparent harshness of these instructions is designed to prevent us from being deceived by the guile of such people who are masquerading as christian leaders and indeed as fellow christians.

Ultimately it is best to leave these people to their own folly when they refuse to accept the truth as it is revealed to us in the Scriptures.

By Wayne Capell on Jul 21, 2008

Wayne,
A hearty Amen to that!

It is clear that Anonymous has a strange idea about Truth. We do not seem able to get past the false idea it is slander and false witness to restate things that have been done in public in front of large crowds, sometimes live on international TV and internet.

As someone who missed the way myself once, I am only too aware of how he feels. It is no easy task to “snatch someone from the fire” it can be incredibly dangerous, and sadly, not always successful.

“Snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.”
Jude 1:23 (ANIV)

I feel it’s time to move on, there are so many others in desperate danger out there.

By Eve on Jul 22, 2008

Hi
I have read all these posts with great interest. My story is not very dramatic. I started watching the Lakeland Revival on God Channel and at first was bemused, but then interested in what I felt could be a move of God. I watched it on and off for two weeks, for long periods in early June at the beginning of the broadcasts. I was open to God doing this “new” thing, using a different kind of person. At first I was attracted to the fact that he(Todd Bentley) looked different, I was thinking so many people could be reached by his looks. His style was a little strange but I thought God uses everybody. He spoke a lot about angels in particular the angel Emma early on, this has now stopped, and he talked a lot about Bob Jones and William Branham, and Paul Cain, I think at that time Paul Cain did get on stage, but I missed that one. I talked to some Christian friends about it all and we weren’t committed either way. It struck me that he never preached a sermon, just talked about what God was doing and how amazing the miracles were. He (Todd) was doing all the kicking and the pushing and shouting and it did worry me but again, I felt I was the one being a prude and God could work in this way. I then asked myself this question, before I accept this I need to find out who this man, Todd Bentley is. I looked on his website but it was only just getting up and running. So I started to search the web, I also looked up Bob Jones and Paul Cain. I was really shocked by what I found. No necessarily about Todd Bentley but the people backing him. I read all about the Kansas City Prophets, their belief in a new wave, a third wave, their belief that the church will take over the world and prepare it for Christ’s coming. Their beliefs weren’t scripture to me which shocked me. I also read about the fall of both Bob Jones and Paul Cain who Todd Bentley spoke of as friends and mentors, this really disturbed me, he spoke of them as advisers and people he was under. This was enough for me to really question what this was all about. I have been on a journey since then. I have done a lot of repenting, I have neglected my Bible for a long time now and I realised I had no armour with which to rebuke or test anything. Luckily for me there were websites like this out there to help me. I realised that I had been growing cold over the years and with that had become dissatisfied by my lukewarm Christian life and lack of passion or love for God, I thought it was there, but looking now it wasn’t. I had begun to open myself up to desiring an experience of God, for God do “do something” in my life. But thankfully God in his mercy has opened my eyes. I am back reading my Bible daily and seeking God in prayer. I have realised that every miracle, every prophetic word, every feeling, every emotion, every blessing, every sermon, every healing will pass away but God’s word will never pass away and it’s all I have to rely on and it will never change. I now see a move in the church away from God’s word, to signs and wonders and feelings. I was at a conference in London recently and heard Nicky Gumbel (Alpha course creator) preach a sermon with over 20 secular quotes and three small Bible verses which were asides, and encourage people there to embrace their orthodox and catholic brothers and sisters because we are one church. This was horrifying to me as I came out of catholicism to become a christian.
I see that in my life, and in so many other christians, because of past hurts and lack of love in my life I looked to man instead of God and his word for my walk with God, my desire to be filled emotionally was overwhelming. I see it all now. God in his mercy has opened my eyes. I feel my walk is to seek God’s face through his word and in prayer and nothing else matters. To not rely on my own understanding but to look to the word. I’m playing catch up now, trying to read and read. When I watch Todd Bentley now I don’t believe this is of God. I believe it is a delusion, when I look at the manifestations at these meetings I can see no biblical support for them, the only time people react in this way in the Bible, as far as I can see, is when they have demons in them. Jesus always delivered them and then they were calm. At the conference in London someone started to laugh manically in the time of “ministry” and it was said immediately that this was the joy of the Lord for the church had been too gloomy for too long, and I realised there and then that those in these services don’t really know what these manifestations are, or have any control over them, but they think they do. I saw a man who was demon possessed and ‘manifesting’ being prayed for, but not for deliverance, and was told God was “doing something”. I fear for the church, this was at one of the largest and most vibrant churches in London and recently.
To anonymous, I just pray that you would ask God to honestly show you what is really happening. To be open just a little bit to the fact that this might not be right, that this might not be God’s work. To test again and give these posts another hearing, you may not like the tone sometimes, and people may not like yours - but what if they are right? If you are so strong in your belief in what is happening you can afford to investigate a little. If Todd Bentley cares so little for what people say why has he stopped talking about the angel Emma, Bob Jones, etc. What about that testimony on the track back, that has to be worth considering. For me 1 Cor.1:8 really brought it home. And I’m sorry if it offends but I felt the Lord give it to me about Lakeland. I am sorry this isn’t a deep and intellectual comment but I am very grateful to the comments posted here.
Regards
Orla

“Let no one defraud you of your reward taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind and not holding fast to the Head from whom all the body nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase which is form God.”

I am not as biblically together as some of the people on this site, I am just an ordinary Christian who is very grateful to God for showing me the light and sending me back to his word and putting me on the right track again, because I know I didn’t deserve it.

By orla on Jul 22, 2008

Amen Orla,

I was saved just prior to the ‘Toronto Blessing’ 14 years ago, and the Lord used what little scriptures I then knew to lead me away from all the maniacal laughter, animal noises, people rolling around in the aisles and piling on top of each other that I witnessed.

I wanted the ‘truth’ no matter what it meant for ‘me’ - even if I did not like it, I wanted the truth. And God has confirmed to me over and over again since that time that His WORD ‘is truth.’ It may slay me on every page, it may prevent me from accepting things my flesh would love, it may chastise and correct me continually, yet Praise the Lord!, it is still the ‘truth’. “Hallelujah! What a Saviour!”

By Gillian on Jul 22, 2008

Greetings Orla,

Thank you for sharing your heart with us. I wept while reading it. I, too, was graciously brought out of the Roman Catholic Church by Almighty God’s tender mercies and amazing grace.

I understand completly how you feel. While I was in the RCC I was forbidden to read the Bible, yes FORBIDDEN by the priests! Believe me when I tell you I was not seeking God at the time. I was listening to a radio station that was talking about Backward Masking in music. My eldest son was listening to that and Hard Rock, so you can imagine how that piqued my interest. This man/preacher was being sponsored at a Church of God…..hmm, I thought I can’t read a Bible how in the world will I explain going to a church that isn’t Catholic. What a dilemma, eh!

Well, long story short, I did attend, but was disappointed and a little shocked at the beginning. This preacher said that instead of talking about Backward Masking, Heavy Metal Rock, etc. that God had changed his message to What Really Happened At Calvary entitled -”Behold The Man.” John 19:5 I thought to myself, You are going to tell me, a devout Catholic about Calvary!?, I am a Catholic, and I can pray the Stations of The Cross by rote! Praise Almighty God I REALLY heard The Gospel that night. I will never forget what that young preacher told me, “Sister, God has called you out of the kingdom of darkness and into His Kingdom of marvelous light - don’t go back!” And I have not. My Bible is my most treasured possession. That’s why I can not understand why more Christians are not reading and studying it more than they do. BTW, I was 40 yrs old when Almighty God regenerated this wretched sinner in 1983.

Psalm 119:18 Open Thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of Thy law.

God Bless you in your studies.

By Elaine on Jul 22, 2008

Bless you Orla,
That is a powerful testimony.
I pray too that Anonymous will consider what is said here. I was misled a while back and it is so difficult to turn round when nobody else wants to. People persevered with me and I am so glad they did. I so wanted to be right.

I pray, too, that others will find something of value here.

By Eve on Jul 22, 2008

Can someone tell me what is happening with Todd Bentley? He was supposed to be back this week and he was there one night this week, I think, at the revival in Forida and now he has been gone again. I know the outpouring is going to end at the end of August and that he has other committments now but I just wonder what happenned, and I don’t mean gossip. Thanks.

By Kathy Rob on Jul 24, 2008

Todd Bentley and His Circus Side Show From Hell

Is pretty much summed up by the succinct comment recently made by a friend .. “I don’t know if the devil wears Prada, but he definitely drives a Bentley”.

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/todd_bentley.html

By Elaine on Jul 31, 2008

Orla ~ good reading from an obvious “Berean”! Keep it up. ~ Two or three things I would like to ask (of anyone)
Firstly, I have heard that Benny Hinn of all people is saying that the Lakeland manifestation is not of God. True or false?
Secondly, exactly who are on the “accountability team” that Todd talks about ~ I have my suspicions e.g., Bob Jones, Paul Cain, Gary Greig, et al.
And finally, can we not in some way, apart from this and other similar sites, present a united front? How I do not know, but an extremely well composed site of Holy Spirit inspiration might fit?

By Abraham on Aug 5, 2008

Dear brethren in Christ,
We greet you in the name of our Almighty Father for his great tender care of us whereby he has given us this short opportunity to air our best greetings to you and God’s name be praised.
We are very happy when we visited your website on the internet, here in Kenya we are an Independent christian fellowship with no affilliation to any church. Now brethen for we are applying for church membership and affiliation also in your church.
We are praying God to open your ways for you to come here in Kenya, to ordain, teach and share with us the word of God here in Kenya.
In fact we pray that you to consider our application.We are praying God to open ways for you to come teach us the word of God. We shall be very happy when we shall be numbered with you.
We would like to hear from you soon.Phil 4:21-22, Col 3: 23.
God bless you our brethren in Christ.
Your loving servants in Christ,
Pastor Charles Onduso Kiari and Mary Kerubo Onduso
po box 155 gucha
code 40204

By pastor charles onduso kiari on Aug 23, 2008

We all know the scriptures how the world is going to be shaken, and that judgement starts in the house of God. Thus the church will logically be shaken first. God is going to be using a lot more Bentleys - real and raw, warts and all - to shake away all the religious garbage that we evangelicals, pentecostals, charismatics, and 3rd wavers have inherited from hundreds of years of accumulation. All that is not of Christ will be shaken - out of each of us who love the Lord.

By Anonymous on Aug 30, 2008

I agree that ‘all that is not of Christ’ can be shaken out of us, not ‘will be’ as so many are willing to follow false prophets thinking they are anointed of God when they are not. Therefore there are those of us who have never been silted up in the first place! My desire is that the professing church of Jesus Christ learns from the “raw warts” and get straight with scripture through the Logos and not our/their own interpretation.Many warts abound in the church today, acting out their own beliefs and thereby re-interpreting God, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit. It would not be so dangerous if they were not in positions of prominenece but they certainly are as far as the Third Wave Emerging church is concerned.

By Abraham on Sep 2, 2008

Abraham - if you think that you do not have much from hundreds of years of Christendom and modernism that needs to be shaken out - you have a big surprise coming.

Lord Jesus -
let your Kingdom come
let your will be done
on earth
as it is in heaven.

By Anonymous on Sep 2, 2008

I can’t say I understand what Anon. is talking about ~ subjectively there is nothing that needs to be shaken out in a True Believer if he/she has a love for the Logos. Whilst I appreciate what you are getting at, I and many more are not hog-tied to any church system. This is where the shaking needs to take place, desperately so I would say. E.g. the denominational systems that promoted Todd definitely need shaking right out, bearing in mind what has now taken place in promoting a false prophet. It seems true to say that few who have written here regard Christendom with the same devotion we are to give the blessed Triune God : many are well-read [e.g. in the works of Ryle, Spurgeon, Tozer, etc] and are most unlikely to be surprised by absolutely anything the man-made system can bring up - including the Third Wave Emerging church. If Messiah came tomorrow I would not be surprised, but ready ~ the best criterion any True Believer could possibly have.

By Abraham on Sep 5, 2008

God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble

By Anonymous on Sep 5, 2008

You guys should check out “Shifting Shadow of Supernatural Power” by Julia Loren. It dives deep into the subject of the supernatural, healing, and prophetic encounters and helps the reader discern origins. There is nothing like this work in the church today. Julia is a journalist, licensed counselor, and the author of several books. The above book is well researched and compelling. I believe it will become a living classic and manual on discerning the true power of God and how to move in it. It should bring much light to any real seeker of truth. And help calm the storm surrounding the Lakeland Outpouring and Todd Bentley.

Check out Julia Loren’s blog post, “In respect to Todd Bentley & leaders who crumble”
http://julialoren.net/index.php?id=8502473226487290795?v=2

By Caz on Sep 9, 2008

The Lord Jesus Christ will take care of us till he calls us home. On Sept, 20, 1991 I crashed my airplane into a house in Pleasant Grove, Alabama, but the Lord Jesus Christ has let me live. I was at Death’s door for eight days & lost all my memories ….. but you know God is giving them back to me slowly, and I thank him for what he is doing for me.
Once a month we go to Draper Prison to pass out Bibles and to witness to them, and we have a Pastor who will preach to them and most of the time we see the Lord work & there is someone Saved. God Bless you.

By Gerald Lee Heaton on Sep 11, 2008

Well, what do you all think now about the whole Todd Bentley deal? How come everybody stopped blogging?? Are you all baffled or all convinced. I dunno the answer - only we have to stay close to Jesus to have deception exposed..

By charity on Sep 21, 2008

Friday, 19 September 2008
YOU CANNOT GET TRUTH ANYWHERE UNTIL YOU DEAL WITH JUDGEMENT

11Th SEPT 2008.

Woke up this morning and was a bit tired and so decided to meditate some. Started meditating on some Scriptures like God’s faithfulness. Scriptures like :1Cor 1:9 ”God is faithful …”, 1Thes 5:23-24 ”And the very God of Peace ….Faithful is He …”, Hebrews 10:23”Let us hold fast …; (for he is faithful that promised;)”, Gen 8:22 ”While the earth remaineth …”

While I meditated on the above for a while I started mixing it up with Holy spirit scriptures like :John 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, … .John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, … .

While I meditated on the above scriptures, I had a quick vision:

I was in a kind of gathering, fellowship. Then suddenly one of the ELDERLY in this meeting came from the back of the congregation and started flogging a young man in the meeting towards my back. His reason why he did this was that the young man was too young to be there. There was a little bit of a commotion. While some people supported him , some didn’t. Suddenly I saw that in the front of the meeting place were now gathered and standing together all the Elders. By now I had gotten the BIG cane he was using. The gathering of the Elders in front were trying to kind of suppress the protest and appeared to be winning. People did not want to be kind of seen to oppose them. By this time I was enraged , was standing right in front of them in front of the congregation , somehow backing the congregation. If you are standing in front and facing the congregation, I was standing towards the left hand side of the front and if you were backing the congregation, I was at the right hand side. All of a sudden ,the whole place became quiet and I heard the following words come out of my mouth:

”YOU CANNOT GET TRUTH ANYWHERE UNTIL YOU DEAL WITH JUDGEMENT”

Is important also to note that when those words came out of my mouth, those ELDERS who were initially trying to use their STATUS as ‘ELDERS that have to be respected’, and were therefore intimidating the people, were nodding by now including the one who was doing the flogging. The word “until” above is emphasised because it stood up still in my spirit even after the vision. Also note that the word “get” means that somebody is searching or looking for something which in this case is TRUTH.

When I came out of this vision, I went and searched all the scriptures that have to do with Judgement/Truth. I have spent hours reading , studying them and praying to get ALL what the Lord Is Saying.

THE HOLY SPIRIT IS TALKING TO THE LEADERSHIP OF THE BODY OF CHRIST,THE CHURCH.

The word ‘Get’ means:
receive; obtain; purchase; take; understand. This means that The Elders i.e. the Leaders of the body of Christ, the Church, have been trying to OBTAIN OR ACQUIRE , RECEIVE OR UNDERSTAND TRUTH without DEALING WITH JUDGEMENT. And the Lord is saying NO.

Pilate:

Have the Leaders of the Church now become like Pilate? Pilate was sitting in the JUDGEMENT HALL on the JUDGEMENT THRONE and was asking ”What is Truth?” How about that. He knew that Jesus was innocent judging from even the allegation made against him by the Jewish leaders alone. I mean even without Jesus’ own defence. Even his wife eventually sent to warn Pilate against having anything to do with that just man having been warned prior in the night before. God does not do a thing without first warning, remember?… .So Pilate knew the truth. He knew that Jesus was innocent, he knew that the Jews were WRONG, but his problem was his POSITION. He did not want to lose his Gubernatorial position. So in order to maintain his position, he had to miscarry Justice and still had the Audacity to ask ‘what is truth’. Many there be in the Leadership position in the Church today who do not want to come out and judge righteous judgement just so that they don’t lose their position. Bible says that if we judge ourselves we will not be judged and now is the time to do so. JUDGEMENT WILL BEGIN IN THE HOUSEHOLD OF CHRIST, REMEMBER?.

I tremble as I write this, because this is a topic that does not make for palatable reading or preaching, yet we do not have to fear so much , but this is a call for real self-examination. Personally, I have been consecrating, rededicating and repenting (where I think I need to) since this year, yet after this word from the Lord, I have been re-examining again, just to be sure all is well.

1Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

We will be coming back with further insight into these as the Lord permits.

NOTE:PLEASE ENSURE THAT ANY MINISTER OF THE GOSPEL THAT YOU KNOW FROM PASTORS , GENERAL OVERSEERS, SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHERS, GROUP LEADERS, EVEN BISHOPS, ALL GET A PRINT COPY. PASS IT ACROSS TO FELLOWSHIP LEADERS AND INTERCESSORY GROUPS AS WELL. THE LORD WILL BLESS YOU AS YOU DO.

PEACE

NB:Be sure to go to my blog:http://www.nd-king.blogspot.com

By ND on Oct 1, 2008

Todd Bentley…. There has to be a very special place in Hell for his likes….. One would have to be either a naive babe in Christ or dead in trespasses and sin to believe in the Bentley madness. God is not the Author of confusion… Bentley and his followers are confused. Gold teeth… gold dust… - my goodness, where will the madness end? When will it end?
Mt 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mk 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
2Pet 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Those who encourage the money-preachers [like Bentley, Hinn, etc] by supporting them, are without excuse. The scriptures are plain, but then if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 2Cor. 4:3.
I worship in a Pentecostal church in Glasgow, and we are not fooled by the Bentleys of this world, not all Pentecostal assemblies hold to that kind of drivel, but sadly many do.
1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

By Alexander Lennox on Oct 8, 2008

All things will come to the light and God’s Truth will be revealed as seen in the gospel. When we focus on “the man” instead of Jesus Christ we’ve missed the mark right from the beginning. Man’s glory is for a brief moment. Let’s keep our eyes on Jesus

By sonya on Oct 26, 2008

Though many do, I don’t personally believe that Todd was a decoy of satan, even though his outcome was not good at all. Let us all learn from this, particularly spiritual leaders who validated his ministry without scrutinizing his character and methods. For a great read on this subject check out ‘A Step Into Deliverance’ by Toni Pugh. It’s a riveting autobiography and a real page-turner!

By ray stone on Dec 19, 2008

Concerning ray stone’s comment on Todd, he most certainly was not a ‘decoy’ of Satan, because he did not have the faintest idea as to what he had gotten into - this is blatantly obvious. Todd ‘thought’ he had been anointed of God and had received unique power to heal, deliver from demons, call to Salvation even - but all the time as he was not called of God and did not even see the need for holiness and righteous living, he was ‘used’ of Satan as are the Spiritualists and shamans etc. Todd was totally ignorant of just about everything of God, but duped possibly millions. His anointing came from the gravem of a dead person, and so has the so-called anointing of Cal Pierce of the Healing Rooms, and many more from the past of similar ilk, and many more yet to come. Are millions more going to be duped again? I think so, and professing Christianity should be ashamed of herself!

By Abraham on Jan 6, 2009

Alexander - I’m across the other end of the M8, in Edinburgh - and all I can say is, another stunt like Todd and I will become a conservative, Open Bretheren, fundamentalist cessationist. And I used to be a Pentecostal.

OK, I exaggerate - a bit - but enough is enough.

By Ross on Jan 6, 2009

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By Moderator 2 on Mar 3, 2009

Ross - you’d better get ready to become a conservative cessationist because God is going to use a lot more imperfect people like Todd to do a lot more healings.

Abraham - your allegations regarding Todd’s calling are false, flawed, and unbiblical.

By Anonymous on Mar 10, 2009

Anonymous - what do you mean “a lot more healings” … you have to have had at least one to have “more”.

The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule on their own authority; And My people love it so! But what will you do at the end of it?
Jeremiah 5:31

By bmb on Mar 10, 2009

bmb -
I was healed - that’s at least one. I saw others healed with my own eyes at Lakeland so that’s a few more. There are thousands of testimonies all over the world - so that’s quite a lot.

Regarding prophets. The bible has a lot more to say about the stoning of true prophets than it does about the warning of false prophets.

By Anonymous on Mar 10, 2009

I have been reading some of the stuff that people say about Todd Bentley, ‘He’s a man of God’, ‘A prophet of God’, ‘A Brother in the Lord’, and so on. Truly, people would need to be brain dead to think that Todd Bentley is anything other than a con artist. If they are not brain dead, then they are in denial, or nearer the truth, dead in tresspasses and sin.
I have just watched and listened to this lying prophet tell the world on U-tube that there is no female angel, No Emma! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNV-5RQiwss

Listen to this liar Bentley on the above link, then tell me he is still a saved man.

Without fear of contradiction there has to be a very special place in hell for the Bentley’s and Hinn’s of this world, but make no mistake about this, God will not judge Bentley and Hinn without judging those people who made it possible for them to continue in the business of making merchandise from the free gospel of Jesus Christ.
Every man and woman who dug deep into their pockets to give money to these parasites, are as guilty as they themselves, because they aided & abetted them in their scam.

By Alexander on Apr 22, 2009

A timely reminder, Alexander, about the blood-sucking, “greed is good” preachers doing the pentecostal preaching circuits and evangelical ones too. The Christianity Today Inc stable of magazines provide some worthwhile articles online, but it’s not free - it’s ‘pay me 6.95 (or whatever), and I’ll let you download’.
Proof-texting is being accepted without exegesis and many in the Church are lapping up nonsense. Maybe everyone should do a course in hermeneutics? - it will help people be discerning about the messages of popular preachers and teachers.
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But to call those mesmerised by a preacher (and giving an offering to them) “as guilty as” the preacher, is a bit much and very extreme - their ‘guilt’ [if they have any re this] is much less than that of the preacher’s support staff, and the scamming preacher themself! Please consider this.
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May the Lord Jesus bless you.

By greygum on Apr 22, 2009

Dear “Greygum”, It is one thing to give a one off donation to a conman preacher, but it is quite another to donate on a regular basis. My point is that if I aid and abet a criminal by helping him, in any way shape or form, the authorities will not hold me guiltless. Sure I “could” have been naive in doing what I did, but the law does not accept ignorance as an excuse for breaking the law, and neither does God.

As a retired Health and safety Representative, I heard of a case where three men stood before the Judge, now, in their attempt to wriggle out of their guilt, all three claimed that they had been ignorant to the 1974 Health and Safety Act. All three were found guilty by the Judge who said, “Ignorance of the Law is no excuse for breaking it. The Judge went on to remind the accused that the company they worked for had a copy of the 1974 Health and Safety act, therefore by not taking the opportunity to familiarise themselves with it, they had left themselves without a leg to stand on.

Greygum, we too, have a Health & Safety book, it’s called the Holy Bible, and if we took time to consult it would keep us from running foul of Gods law, it would inform us of the wolves in sheep’s clothing, and it would keep us on the straight and narrow.
The problem is that many “Christians” have lost the Holy art of feeding themselves and have become lazy; relying on the pastor spoon feed them. Such are without excuse, especially when they allow the Tod Bentley’s, and Hinn’s of this word to spoon feed them with their demonic pottage. They have the BOOK, let them read it.

By Alexander on Dec 13, 2009

Seems to me that using the metaphor of a court of law regarding those I wrote of, tends to paint oneself into a corner of either/or absolutes. The apostle John affirmed different levels of awareness during a believer’s growth in Christ when he wrote in his letters of little children, young men and fathers. Implicit in this is greater accountability for our doctrine as we grow further - this is explicit in the responsibility in any of us who teach others in the faith.
Perhaps the metaphor of a family with young and infant children is wiser to use when comparing my comment of 22/4/09, than that of a court of law.
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The Lord bless you, brother.

By greygum on Dec 13, 2009

Well said GreyGum … but …
Even a family with young and/or infant children will eventually grow up and come of age. Just because someone is an adult (18 years old) doesn’t mean they aren’t still children (as far as outlook and naivety is concerned) … but still they are accountable in the eyes of the law.
God expects us to grow up.
God expects us to learn.
God has expectations of us.
The question becomes, simply because a Christian does NOT read the Word of God, but remains a “child” so to speak, and does not learn, does that mean that he will be judged more or less hard than a true new child of God?
I’m not saying that such (i.e. the followers who donate to the money preachers) are necessarily of the same ilk as the preachers and their staff, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that God won’t make them answerable/accountable in some way too (at the Bema seat).
The problem can escalate when the follower’s doctrine/theology becomes inextricably intertwined with the false preachers that God’s gift of salvation becomes so corrupted that deeds and works are sought after to earn ones way to heaven or to (euphemistically) “grow” to have enough faith to make it. After all it’s their “faith” that saves them - rather than faith (trust) in Christ.
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Oops, better get off my soapbox.

By bmb on Jan 3, 2010

Thanks BMB and I agree with all your points. Using similes and metaphors necessarily means that not every scenario will be covered apart from the main point. Thanks for filling in the gap of the adult who refuses to grow up.

By greygum on Jan 5, 2010

MrTodd Bentley is just the latest sham to walk in the prophetic movement - he is a clown, I mean he is being mentored by the old school Kansas City prophets, a group of false prophets here in Kansas City that realized just how easy it is to prey on seeking Christians, for their monetary gain. Mike Bickel, Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, Paul Cain, all charlatans, and this clown are the new generation x version of the old kansas city prophets. There is nothing biblical about Todd Bentley, and the thing is I was really pulling for this cat, to have another outside-the-box, doesn’t-fit-the-mold preacher like myself, the tattooed, peirced, bald head, bold in apperance, to reach the outcast and those who don’t fit the description, but he ran for his own glory and riches. Myself? I am a former Professional wrestler, who turned preacher, and as a pastor I’ve decided that if Todd Bentley ever came to my church and did the things to my people that he has done to others (like kicking a woman in the face, running full out into a man, jumping on him and violently choking him, running head steam and hitting a man in the stomach so hard one of his teeth flew out his mouth), I would have snatched him up and power bombed him right on the stage.
Todd Bentley I offer you an open challenge, inside the squared circle, mano e mano, take back a little bit of that punishement you have been inflicting on folks in your so called ministry for years, that you claim God told you to do. Todd you can even bring “Emma” as your manager. Don’t be scared Todd!!!!!! it’s time to have real hands “laid” on you in the name of Jesus

By STREET EVANGELIST on May 11, 2010

Great to hear from you Street Evangelist ~ your comments on Todd are clearly straight from the heart! However, I have some less than good news about this fella which I’ve only just come across. He is definitely not up for punishment as he so richly deserves but is prospering! Mind you this does not surprise me as for every true Believer with true discernment there are upwards of a hundred who do not know what this particular ‘gift of the Holy Spirit’ implies.
Have a look at the following web-site:
http://www.morningstartv.com/content/resurrection-power-teaching-video-todd-bentley-2010-05-15 (hope I have pasted this in OK) This falsehood in tattoos and trousers is actually preaching - as he thinks - and promoting the Word of God. E.g. (from Jordan Deal - so-called worship leader) Resurrection power is here tonight, can you feel it at the back of your neck and down your shoulders? (quotes from video) “We are promoting a brand new way (way to whom I wonder) “We need to be real over-comers (Todd speaks)… we want to see God’s real power here tonight -to defeat sickness and death …we always speak of resurrection power but never ‘act on it’ ……and so on in similar manner (my comments) Certainly Todd as an unwitting tool of Satan, and adulterer has been - I hesitate to use the word resurrected as this would be tantamount to blasphemy - has been revived by the same Angel Emma - so it seems - into a willing and receptive Ministry run by Rick Joyner and others. I would say that God’s wrath is already upon the US and if this nonsense is allowed to continue as purportedly by the divine inspiration of God’s Spirit and thereby denying folk the truth of Salvation ~ then worse will follow. And (joke) I may not be as good as Cindy Jacobs at prophesying (doesn’t she shout a lot?) but I’ll bet I am not far wrong. Having said all that may God’s blessings be upon all seekers after truth in the name of Jesus.

By Abraham on May 17, 2010