15 Responses to “AoG - A Different Movement and JUDGMENT”
Thank you Philip for warning us, feeding us with God’s precious word, and also for staying the course. You have been willing to do the hard/dirty but necessary work that no one really wants to do - warning people - trying to wash the mud off people’s feet.
It is getting to the stage where one gets tired of blowing the trumpet of warning - tired of the rejection and knock-backs, - tired of going against the flow. But we must be faithful to the One who has called us. Faithful to God’s Word. Jesus has the answers. God is still on the throne and in control and yes, I believe judgment is right around the corner, at the door. He who endures to the end shall be saved. Keep on warning to the end Philip, with a right attitude which is very palpable in your writing.
I did a twenty-year stretch in the AoG in New Zealand, and got to know people like Frank Houston and Neville Johnson. If there are any more goings-on like Todd Bentley, I will become a cessationist and turn into a conservative evangelical. Open Brethren would do quite nicely!
Alright, that’s an exaggeration. But why is it that most of the moral and doctrinal disasters are Pentecostal or Charismatic? Not even the old-time Pentecostals were spared - every time something goes wrong, it just encourages our conservative critics to go to town.
By the way, what I have seen of the UK AoG, where I am, is not all that encouraging either - although not, mercifully, for the reasons documented in this article.
Ross,
There are, sadly, plenty of these disasters in Evangelical circles and in liberal circles too. Maybe ‘the media’ are just more interested in displaying the inconsistencies/hypocrisies of those who’ve put so much effort into “positioning” themselves for wide media exposure of their ‘message’ as televangelists, healers, etc?
It is no surprise that the AOG in Australia will eventually be absorbed into the Australian Christian Churches denomination. The spirit of Nimrod is alive and well in Christendom. It’s every pastor’s dream to build their own religious empire because like Nimrod the reason is the same ….. “Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves…..” Gen 11:4. THEY WISH TO MAKE A NAME FOR THEMSELVES!! Derek Prince has an excellent teaching on the theme of denominations; “Removing The High Places.” I do recommend it. God Bless
Tru,
Yes, the spirit of Nimrod is seeping into just about all Australian denominations. The whole AoG exercise of creating the “Australian Christian Churches” brand-name from the start, appeared to be more as a trojan-horse way of becoming a mega-denomination. When various pentecostal and charismatic groups started pulling out from it (while ACC was under Me$iti’s and Hou$ton’s leadership during the last decade) it seemed they’d ‘wised-up’. It also seemed that the brand-name usage would cease and would revert to generic use as a description of all Christian churches in Australia, as it should always have been.
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Alas, AoG fascists immediately ‘gazumped’ the name and changed their denomination’s name to “Australian Christian Churches” - the Executive Board must be full of themselves.
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I hope many congregations will leave this flesh-filled organisation, and in those churches whose leaders are ‘loyal’ to Hou$ton & Co (and who won’t separate from these works of the flesh), then may many individuals and families leave. There is much good pasture around if sheep are willing to search it out.
I just finished reading your essay, ‘A Different Movement with the Same Name’ on what has happened in the AOG over the years.
My wife Renee and I were married at Mt. Gravatt AOG back in January of 1973. Reginald Klimionok was the pastor then. We moved to Africa shortly after that and I lost contact with many in the congregation, however a few years ago I heard from one of my mates in South Australia that Klimionok had moved to TX here in the US of A and I called him on the phone several times. He did not want to talk with me for some reason and I really did not know why.
It turned out that another mate told me that Mr. Klimionok had to leave Australia because of some kind of financial affair and he moved to the US where financial affairs are common. I do not know if they fell into some of these deceptions but I do know that a number of folks we once knew have fallen into this strange worship of avarice and I grieve for them at times.
After reading your article I forwarded the link to several believers who have had difficulties with some of what has been touted as REVIVAL in our day.
We have lived in Kentucky since 1978 and we attended several AOG congregations over the years since then, but I discovered that something was not right. I sought the Lord carefully by the Word of God and over the last 30 years I have watched with great concern the direction many in the AOG have gone. Today in Somerset KY the AOG has turned completely to something I cannot recognize. We visited that congregation for the first time since the 1980s just a few weeks ago, no one we met recognized us and we did not know anyone. It started with an uncomfortable volume of music being played at 90 db and higher, and even with ear plugs it was difficult to concentrate, but after 45 minutes of little or nothing coming from the pastor from the Scripture I sensed that maybe we were in the wrong place. The pastor then set up the offering and as the bags were being passed through the pews he said, “Remember that your tithe is seed. Bring all your seed money and be prepared to receive 10 fold what you have given!” My wife and I knew straight away where this comes from so we left. I have been told that this view of bringing seed money is common in a fare few AOG congregations. This comes directly from Rod Parsley in Columbus OH and several others so called non-denominational congregations who appear to have no check and balance in their foundations.
Over the years I have sought the Lord with great care and careful subjection to the Scripture and I have been surprised several times when the Holy Spirit spoke to my spirit. I have also experienced some very un-nerving things from the Spirit in that I have seen the hearts of men. Not all men, just some here and there. Most of the time I am not permitted to address what I have seen but why the Lord permitted me to see it caused me some concern for a number of years, then one day about 10-years ago while reading what God says and Jeremiah writes in 5:30 something was made clear to me. I began to witness how many were being deceived and going after other gods and I was shaken to the depth of my being.
One day while driving to work I went past a Freemason lodge, and the Spirit spoke to my spirit and said, almost audibly brother, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing here?” I had to stop the car and as I prayed the Lord gave me a vision of what happens in a Freemason lodge—I had never been in one and yet I knew I was being led to write it out. I did—and I gave it to three Freemasons in the Baptist congregation we were attending at the time. All three answered my challenge but not what I expected. One said that I just do not understand, another said that I should never have revealed what I did in my apologetic of the truth, and the third said that if he has done anything wrong he would repent. He has since recanted and he has returned to the lodge and the strange thing is that he took counsel from some of his lodge mates rather than go to the Word of God. I (We) have also been shunned by all but one elderly lady from that congregation since then.
I do not know the spirit of the age, I have not enquired as we spend our time praising and glory to the Lord of the Scripture. I have had to engage the apostate church around us, but I have found myself wandering in a bit of wilderness at times. During one of those days while riding a horse near where we live, something happened that nearly caused me to fall off that horse. I again heard the most beautiful sacred music, the same as I heard in Iran back in the mid 70s. I was stunned and I wrote out what the Lord gave me on that morning.
What your essay did for me was confirm that I am not alone in seeing what is happening. As shocking as it is, I sometimes grieve over some of this but I KNOW where it is coming from so we have been delivered from even being close to it. The Scripture is being revealed and I truly believe that we may be living in the last of the LAST days as even some who I thought should know better are being deceived, some who I would have thought were among the elect. I do struggle with what to do with the visions I have had but for now I am at peace just KNOWING that I have heard from the Lord and you have provided some assurance and confirmation that I have not read more into it than it is. I praise the Lord this evening for you.
I have pondered a phrase I heard some time back regarding “Wired Conference” for some time.
I earnestly pray that the reader consider carefully and prayerfully what I have been anointed to minister in this essay. The Holy Spirit never works only on one side of an equation; As He prepares the spirit and mouth of one, He prepares the spirit and ears of another.
[I am prepared to be declared anathema by many including some I hold very dear, and in the end be declared faithful by the Righteous Judge rather than by man. I stand with Luther in what I am about to write and say to you—“Here I stand, I can do no other!”]
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Over the years I have listened carefully to a number of preachers who have been part and parcel to the mass media of this the United States and I have had personal exposure to several of them. This essay is intended as a warning to the Body of Christ rather than a criticism of a few I will have named, for I am not the judge, I bring only that which I have received in the Spirit to those who will take heed.
So my intent is not to criticize but to warn those in the Body of Christ that there are dangerous men walking amongst us who claim to be messengers of the Faith, but in reality they are mere story tellers with a great skill in anecdotal storytelling and stimulation of mass esoteric experience with phony miracles and questionable teachings on personal prophesies and healings. They do not teach the Word of God, indeed some of their teachings have cultic character in what they have demanded of people in terms of belief and activities.
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I cannot tell you dear reader the number of broken and hurt people I have crossed paths with who have been victimized by some of this teaching. The recovery of some of these broken people may never be realized, and except for the Grace of God through Christ are we even able to see this destruction about us in this day.
To name a few I have heard and witnessed, Joyce Meyers, Benny Hinn, Rod Parsley, and others whom I have not heard with my ears, but I have read what they have written—Rick Shelton falls within this list. Some are calling themselves ‘revivalists’, with hundreds, thousands, and millions being spoken of as “Having come to Jesus” because of their preaching and uttering words of their own imaginations, but what does this mean? What does it mean to be called a revivalist?
Where there is a baker, bread is made and you can eat of the fruit of his labor. Where there is a mason, you can rest yourself in the structure of his building because he has laid brick to make a safe haven. Where there is a doctor, there are healings and some by miracles because even the doctor at times cannot explain the body being healed and many a doctor who is not even a believer has witnessed this.
But what of the REVIVALIST? What is the evidence that he points to in order to justify his speaking? Without the Holy Spirit there is no revival, yet there are those who conjure up an emotional experience without true transforming evidence and tell the world that they have saved many from eternal destruction, and if you will send more money, he and they are able to save more. They conveniently neglect to tell you how they are living and where they are really spending your gifts.
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I tell you the truth, the spirit that they are manifesting might not be all that holy, nor enduring, nor evidence of things not seen. It seems as though the holy movement of the divine Hand of God to stir the spirits of a group has been captured by a man and wielded as a new title. This is unfathomable when you think it through carefully.
We are given clear Scriptural evidence to evaluate the authenticity of a Pastor or Teacher and care must be taken to rightly divide the Word of Truth so as not to be deceived by those who bring another gospel.
Paul tells us in Romans that he does not desire any of the brethren to be ignorant of a mystery, lest they become wise in their own opinion, but blindness has come upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. This has become clear to me that in the last times there is another blindness that might be wrought in the land and that among some who claim to be spiritual and wise by their own imaginations that are truly ignorant of a great mystery.
Please bear with me while I unpack this difficult and agonizing revelation of the Spirit, but I am at a loss to be able to speak it without foundation and careful considerations of what I have had revealed to me over the last decades and especially recently when I received an invitation to attend a conference referred to as “WIRED CONFERENCE!”
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I will start with this very short book in Scripture called ‘Jonah’: Over the years, I have heard many sermons spoken and I have read others regarding this amazing book of utter unbelievable experiences. Who can believe a man is swallowed by a great fish and either lives or dies, but in the end is vomited out on dry land and either resurrected from the dead or was alive in the fish and lived to be vomited out—either way it is nearly impossible to grasp what has happened here and to have someone believe this is even more incredible. He is told to go preach to a people not his own. Who can understand what was written here about a little known son of Amittai who the Lord spoke to and said, “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry out against it; for their wickedness has come up before Me.”
Hundreds of sermons and thoughtful writings of hundreds of scholars, theologians, believers and non-believers alike have not made this any more understandable than what is actually recorded here—except for one thread that is woven through this tapestry by God Himself. Few have preached what this book is really about and WHO it is about, and fewer still realize the truth behind having it in the canon at all. It is the LAST SENTENCE. “And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?” The whole intent of this revealing of the things of man is about GOD, not a fish, not a sea story, not a city, not a man called to go to that people and speak thus—but of GOD HIMSELF. Should I not have pity?
Israel has been blinded for a season, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. God has blinded them because they would not see. He has given them eyes that cannot see and hearts that cannot find peace for a season. If Israel—the apple of His eye is blinded why not the apostate church at the end of this age? Would He even find FAITH when He returns?
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I have found that a similar blindness is coming to many in the land who call themselves believers, who are bringing upon many a deception to those who do not seek the Living God by His Word, but attempt to seek Him through the stories and anecdotal storytelling of some who claim to have a direct and personal line of understanding to God HIMSELF. Their claims are not backed up by Scripture, but because the ear is tuned to a desire rather than the evidence, those listening to these so called preachers are being deceived by the thousands and hundreds of thousands, men who argue a fantastic twisting of the Scripture to part money from those who are in ‘Nineveh’ rather than bring them the true message of destruction lest they repent. They do not know their right hand from their left, and it is only the Grace and Wonder of this Glorious and magnificent God we serve that we are allowed to repent and be saved at all.
“The time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an Evangelist, fulfill your ministry.” This found in 2 Timothy 4:3-5 is precisely the warning to the believer.
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Today as I pondered this and struggled with the Lord in whether to even write this, I was struck with yet another revelation of Scripture that few if any really grasp, let alone take heed to.
Elijah had a servant named Elisha who served his master well. Because he witnessed that Elijah was indeed a man who sought the Living God, he wanted to be able to minister with an anointing similar to that which he had seen. Elijah told Elisha on a number of occasions that he would journey to another place but he would return and for Elisha to just wait for him. Elisha would not permit himself to be far away from his master and refused to wait but came with Elijah where ever he went. In the end, Elijah told Elisha that if he witnessed when Elijah was taken he would receive the mantle and whatsoever he declared would be done. It is recorded that Yahweh did 16 miracles including the miraculous utterances through Elijah that are recorded in Scripture. There are 31 miracles recorded including the miraculous utterances that were done by this same God under the hand of Elisha, and one after his death when a man was resurrected by touching Elisha’s bones which total 32—double that of his master. The promise fulfilled. However many times this is spoken, few if any really tell of Elisha’s servant Gehazi who actually committed sin and bore its penalty.
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Naaman was the commander of a great army in Syria but he had leprosy. There was a young woman living in Syria who had been a captive taken from her land Israel. When Naaman was discovered to have this terminal disease, this young girl said to her mistress, “If only my master were with the prophet who is in Samaria! For he would heal him of his leprosy.” Naaman went and told this to the king who sent Naaman to Israel to seek out this prophet and gave him a great treasure of gold and silver with a letter (understand this, the king of Syria is not a believer) to the king of Israel that read in part, “Be advised, when this letter comes to you, that I have sent Naaman my servant to you, that you may heal him of his leprosy.” The king of Israel read this letter and became angry saying, “Am I God, to kill and make alive, that this man sends a man to me to heal him of his leprosy?” He did not understand it was not the prophet doing the healing—it was the GOD OF THE PROPHET doing the healing. Elisha heard that the king of Israel was upset so he said to him, “Why are you angry?” Let the man come to me and he shall know there is a prophet in Israel.
Naaman did not like the answer given him by Elisha, to wash himself 7 times in the dirty Jordan. He was furious, because he wanted to wash in one of the clean rivers of Damascus. He became angry and walked away in a rage is what the Scripture says, but his own servants quietly spoke to Naaman saying, “If the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, ‘Wash, and be clean’?” Well, you know the story, but do you really know Elisha’s servant?
Gehazi heard Naaman and his council offer Elisha the money, but what happened? Naaman pleaded with Elisha to allow him to go to the temple of Rimmon to worship with his master the king, and he leans on my hand, and I bow down in the temple of Rimmon—that when he bowed down may the Lord please pardon him. Elisha did not say “Don’t go to the temple” or “This is sin” but said “Go IN PEACE!”
Afterward Gehazi left and caught up with Naaman and he told him something that escapes many in this day and time. “All is well. My master has sent me, saying, ‘Indeed, just now two young men of the sons of the prophets have come to me from the mountains of Ephraim. Please give them a talent of silver and two changes of garments’.” Well, Gehazi came back to his master Elisha who did not need to be told of men what Gehazi had done. “Where did you go, Gehazi?” The answer, NOWHERE! Elisha said to him, “Did not my heart go with you when the man turned back from his chariot to meet you? Is it time to receive money and to receive clothing, olive groves and vineyards, sheep and oxen, male and female servants?”. Then the leprosy Naaman had was given to Gehazi and he was white as snow. NOT ANOTHER WORD IS SAID OF GEHAZI.
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Do you understand the word-picture, dear reader? Do you grasp what this means? There were in times past honest men preaching the true and Living Gospel of Christ, but a number of them were students under these great men of God and they took up a gospel that is not from God, and they will bear the recompense of this sin in THAT DAY.
Here is what I received from the Lord early this morning:
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There once was a day when honest men spoke honestly about the Word of the Lord, but in this day many have become as Gehazi, they have smitten the church with a false doctrine that if they would give unto the preacher, God would give 10-fold or more back to them. Well-meaning people, desiring to do right, have given countless amounts of wealth to these preachers who are bringing a doctrine not of the Lord but by clever arguments of their hearts. They have been deceived into thinking they have a power and an access to the Living God that they really do not possess; and then, by argument, they make shallow and undisciplined believers into like-minded men and women who willingly participate in a fraudulent and destructive doctrine of the mind of men.
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I am committed to doing what I am called to do and as the Lord lives, may He treat me so harshly if I have not spoken the TRUTH in this letter.
A very important and timely word, Ray. Thank you.
There is a website www.batteredsheep.com who minister the grace and life of Jesus to people who have been “battered” by such false teachings, have a look for yourself as it may be a useful resource in ministering healing and restoration. They provide good teachings for download on the areas of concern to those who have been wounded by such false teachers.
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I want to give a very late response to the comment from Ross on Dec 20 2008, where he said, “If there are any more goings-on like Todd Bentley, I will become a cessationist and and turn into a conservative evangelical. Open Brethren would do quite nicely!”
This is something I’ve also been thinking about (semi-seriously!).
I was prompted by the Lakeland false revival to check things out in a bit more detail, and I came to the sad conclusion that the majority of high-profile figures in the charismatic and pentecostal worlds are heretics and/or deceivers. Quite apart from their own doctrinal and methodological issues, virtually everyone endorsed Lakeland, which puts a massive question mark over their spiritual discernment.
Likewise numerous local churches with well-meaning pastors jumped on the Lakeland bandwagon and seemed incapable of asking even the most basic questions.
Whilst my links to this whole sorry affair have been minimal (my church is far too sensible), the charismatic movement has been my spiritual home for 25+ years and I have taken the view that the power of God and gifts of the Holy Spirit are for us all today.
But now I’m not so sure. Everyone seems corrupt and, if we’re honest, have we ever seen a genuine miracle? So I am wondering if the cessationists are right after all, and have been having a bit of a crisis of faith.
Anastasis,
Yes, so many ‘leaders’ have a much stronger streak of ambition than a heart for the people they are called to be shepherds for. This infection is seriously widespread across the body of Christ: and non-charismatic evangelical Christians suffer from it too - and many have swallowed the ‘health & wealth gospel’ hook,line and sinker without searching the scriptures. Acts 17:11 has a vital habit for each of us.
I’d encourage you to continue exercising your discernment. Not all pentecostal or charismatic leaders are in it for the money, for the girls/guys, for their own glory. And what is called the charismatic movement these days is “a bird of a different feather” to the charismatic movement of the 1960s and 70s.
There is genuine charismata and occasional wonders and signs [at least in the Western world, though they seem more frequent in reports from places where there is an underground church] - and regrettably false, too. Pseudo-christianity is more attractive for some than daily taking up the cross and following the One who endured its humiliation and death for us.
You have brothers and sisters throughout the world who walk this difficult transition and testing time.
May Jesus be close to you,
Regarding Hillside comments. Philip, you are correct in everything you have said over the years in relation to churches. As a child I attended the first A.o.G. meeting in Brisbane. Garnet Budge introduced into Mt. Gravatt, with his members (most being offspring of the oldest of Pentecostals), a zeal for souls, numbers and growth. He had A.o.G. teachings and we all there experienced moves of the Spirit of God with the Gifts, despite ongoing deadness. Reg Kliminiok came into that scene, benefitting from what had been installed there and also greatly from what was occurring at Christian Outreach Centre under Clark Taylor, who commenced well.
Clark was initially with Ps. Chandler and Ps. Midgley and then started out on his own. He did have with him a few old Pentecostals (A.o.G. fashion), who injected gospel, Bible and the outpouring of the Spirit. Sadly he wandered off into “Latter Rain” movement teachings and present day errors of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement world-wide. Just a few years after Trevor Chandler, Frank Houston (who actually was the founder of what is now known as Hillsong), visited C.O.C. and in Sydney began to emulate the growth. He, his son, and Clark have influenced all Australia.
Pentecostal old-timers cannot stand the music in all these churches, rightly, because the fifties and sixties rock/drug scene is the real beginning of the horrific downslide into the present bog of this and the last generation’s immorality, single parents and other sins.
Youth, perverse, blind, unbiblical but excitedly enthusiastic has ignored the faith of the fathers, particularly our father, the Apostle Paul. Brian Houston himself said he and his listeners should not “follow our fathers”. Christianity seems to be rock music worship, rock concert movements, enthusiasm, no negativity, no true gospel, no true book of Acts but much entertainment.
All believers are exhorted to warn and encourage. We encourage individuals to do what Jesus said, “If ‘any man’ hear”, when He denounced the churches. We exhort believers to get to know and imbibe the actual Truths of the Gospel in all of its pristine glory. We warn all Pastors to look at where we have arrived and all to repent. We warn all believers, lovingly, particularly the beautiful new ones who have come in over the past thirty years, to truly examine the Epistles and thus find the rock foundation on which to build.
15 Responses to “AoG - A Different Movement and JUDGMENT”
Thank you Philip for warning us, feeding us with God’s precious word, and also for staying the course. You have been willing to do the hard/dirty but necessary work that no one really wants to do - warning people - trying to wash the mud off people’s feet.
It is getting to the stage where one gets tired of blowing the trumpet of warning - tired of the rejection and knock-backs, - tired of going against the flow. But we must be faithful to the One who has called us. Faithful to God’s Word. Jesus has the answers. God is still on the throne and in control and yes, I believe judgment is right around the corner, at the door. He who endures to the end shall be saved. Keep on warning to the end Philip, with a right attitude which is very palpable in your writing.
By Evie on Dec 17, 2008
I did a twenty-year stretch in the AoG in New Zealand, and got to know people like Frank Houston and Neville Johnson. If there are any more goings-on like Todd Bentley, I will become a cessationist and turn into a conservative evangelical. Open Brethren would do quite nicely!
Alright, that’s an exaggeration. But why is it that most of the moral and doctrinal disasters are Pentecostal or Charismatic? Not even the old-time Pentecostals were spared - every time something goes wrong, it just encourages our conservative critics to go to town.
By the way, what I have seen of the UK AoG, where I am, is not all that encouraging either - although not, mercifully, for the reasons documented in this article.
By Ross on Dec 20, 2008
Ross,
There are, sadly, plenty of these disasters in Evangelical circles and in liberal circles too. Maybe ‘the media’ are just more interested in displaying the inconsistencies/hypocrisies of those who’ve put so much effort into “positioning” themselves for wide media exposure of their ‘message’ as televangelists, healers, etc?
By Paul, a small potato on Dec 20, 2008
It is no surprise that the AOG in Australia will eventually be absorbed into the Australian Christian Churches denomination. The spirit of Nimrod is alive and well in Christendom. It’s every pastor’s dream to build their own religious empire because like Nimrod the reason is the same ….. “Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves…..” Gen 11:4. THEY WISH TO MAKE A NAME FOR THEMSELVES!! Derek Prince has an excellent teaching on the theme of denominations; “Removing The High Places.” I do recommend it. God Bless
By tru on Dec 28, 2008
Tru,
Yes, the spirit of Nimrod is seeping into just about all Australian denominations. The whole AoG exercise of creating the “Australian Christian Churches” brand-name from the start, appeared to be more as a trojan-horse way of becoming a mega-denomination. When various pentecostal and charismatic groups started pulling out from it (while ACC was under Me$iti’s and Hou$ton’s leadership during the last decade) it seemed they’d ‘wised-up’. It also seemed that the brand-name usage would cease and would revert to generic use as a description of all Christian churches in Australia, as it should always have been.
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Alas, AoG fascists immediately ‘gazumped’ the name and changed their denomination’s name to “Australian Christian Churches” - the Executive Board must be full of themselves.
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I hope many congregations will leave this flesh-filled organisation, and in those churches whose leaders are ‘loyal’ to Hou$ton & Co (and who won’t separate from these works of the flesh), then may many individuals and families leave. There is much good pasture around if sheep are willing to search it out.
By redgum on Dec 29, 2008
Brother in Christ
I just finished reading your essay, ‘A Different Movement with the Same Name’ on what has happened in the AOG over the years.
My wife Renee and I were married at Mt. Gravatt AOG back in January of 1973. Reginald Klimionok was the pastor then. We moved to Africa shortly after that and I lost contact with many in the congregation, however a few years ago I heard from one of my mates in South Australia that Klimionok had moved to TX here in the US of A and I called him on the phone several times. He did not want to talk with me for some reason and I really did not know why.
It turned out that another mate told me that Mr. Klimionok had to leave Australia because of some kind of financial affair and he moved to the US where financial affairs are common. I do not know if they fell into some of these deceptions but I do know that a number of folks we once knew have fallen into this strange worship of avarice and I grieve for them at times.
After reading your article I forwarded the link to several believers who have had difficulties with some of what has been touted as REVIVAL in our day.
We have lived in Kentucky since 1978 and we attended several AOG congregations over the years since then, but I discovered that something was not right. I sought the Lord carefully by the Word of God and over the last 30 years I have watched with great concern the direction many in the AOG have gone. Today in Somerset KY the AOG has turned completely to something I cannot recognize. We visited that congregation for the first time since the 1980s just a few weeks ago, no one we met recognized us and we did not know anyone. It started with an uncomfortable volume of music being played at 90 db and higher, and even with ear plugs it was difficult to concentrate, but after 45 minutes of little or nothing coming from the pastor from the Scripture I sensed that maybe we were in the wrong place. The pastor then set up the offering and as the bags were being passed through the pews he said, “Remember that your tithe is seed. Bring all your seed money and be prepared to receive 10 fold what you have given!” My wife and I knew straight away where this comes from so we left. I have been told that this view of bringing seed money is common in a fare few AOG congregations. This comes directly from Rod Parsley in Columbus OH and several others so called non-denominational congregations who appear to have no check and balance in their foundations.
Over the years I have sought the Lord with great care and careful subjection to the Scripture and I have been surprised several times when the Holy Spirit spoke to my spirit. I have also experienced some very un-nerving things from the Spirit in that I have seen the hearts of men. Not all men, just some here and there. Most of the time I am not permitted to address what I have seen but why the Lord permitted me to see it caused me some concern for a number of years, then one day about 10-years ago while reading what God says and Jeremiah writes in 5:30 something was made clear to me. I began to witness how many were being deceived and going after other gods and I was shaken to the depth of my being.
One day while driving to work I went past a Freemason lodge, and the Spirit spoke to my spirit and said, almost audibly brother, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing here?” I had to stop the car and as I prayed the Lord gave me a vision of what happens in a Freemason lodge—I had never been in one and yet I knew I was being led to write it out. I did—and I gave it to three Freemasons in the Baptist congregation we were attending at the time. All three answered my challenge but not what I expected. One said that I just do not understand, another said that I should never have revealed what I did in my apologetic of the truth, and the third said that if he has done anything wrong he would repent. He has since recanted and he has returned to the lodge and the strange thing is that he took counsel from some of his lodge mates rather than go to the Word of God. I (We) have also been shunned by all but one elderly lady from that congregation since then.
I do not know the spirit of the age, I have not enquired as we spend our time praising and glory to the Lord of the Scripture. I have had to engage the apostate church around us, but I have found myself wandering in a bit of wilderness at times. During one of those days while riding a horse near where we live, something happened that nearly caused me to fall off that horse. I again heard the most beautiful sacred music, the same as I heard in Iran back in the mid 70s. I was stunned and I wrote out what the Lord gave me on that morning.
What your essay did for me was confirm that I am not alone in seeing what is happening. As shocking as it is, I sometimes grieve over some of this but I KNOW where it is coming from so we have been delivered from even being close to it. The Scripture is being revealed and I truly believe that we may be living in the last of the LAST days as even some who I thought should know better are being deceived, some who I would have thought were among the elect. I do struggle with what to do with the visions I have had but for now I am at peace just KNOWING that I have heard from the Lord and you have provided some assurance and confirmation that I have not read more into it than it is. I praise the Lord this evening for you.
By Raymond on Feb 14, 2009
REVIVALISTS
23 February 2009
I have pondered a phrase I heard some time back regarding “Wired Conference” for some time.
I earnestly pray that the reader consider carefully and prayerfully what I have been anointed to minister in this essay. The Holy Spirit never works only on one side of an equation; As He prepares the spirit and mouth of one, He prepares the spirit and ears of another.
[I am prepared to be declared anathema by many including some I hold very dear, and in the end be declared faithful by the Righteous Judge rather than by man. I stand with Luther in what I am about to write and say to you—“Here I stand, I can do no other!”]
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Over the years I have listened carefully to a number of preachers who have been part and parcel to the mass media of this the United States and I have had personal exposure to several of them. This essay is intended as a warning to the Body of Christ rather than a criticism of a few I will have named, for I am not the judge, I bring only that which I have received in the Spirit to those who will take heed.
So my intent is not to criticize but to warn those in the Body of Christ that there are dangerous men walking amongst us who claim to be messengers of the Faith, but in reality they are mere story tellers with a great skill in anecdotal storytelling and stimulation of mass esoteric experience with phony miracles and questionable teachings on personal prophesies and healings. They do not teach the Word of God, indeed some of their teachings have cultic character in what they have demanded of people in terms of belief and activities.
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I cannot tell you dear reader the number of broken and hurt people I have crossed paths with who have been victimized by some of this teaching. The recovery of some of these broken people may never be realized, and except for the Grace of God through Christ are we even able to see this destruction about us in this day.
To name a few I have heard and witnessed, Joyce Meyers, Benny Hinn, Rod Parsley, and others whom I have not heard with my ears, but I have read what they have written—Rick Shelton falls within this list. Some are calling themselves ‘revivalists’, with hundreds, thousands, and millions being spoken of as “Having come to Jesus” because of their preaching and uttering words of their own imaginations, but what does this mean? What does it mean to be called a revivalist?
Where there is a baker, bread is made and you can eat of the fruit of his labor. Where there is a mason, you can rest yourself in the structure of his building because he has laid brick to make a safe haven. Where there is a doctor, there are healings and some by miracles because even the doctor at times cannot explain the body being healed and many a doctor who is not even a believer has witnessed this.
But what of the REVIVALIST? What is the evidence that he points to in order to justify his speaking? Without the Holy Spirit there is no revival, yet there are those who conjure up an emotional experience without true transforming evidence and tell the world that they have saved many from eternal destruction, and if you will send more money, he and they are able to save more. They conveniently neglect to tell you how they are living and where they are really spending your gifts.
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I tell you the truth, the spirit that they are manifesting might not be all that holy, nor enduring, nor evidence of things not seen. It seems as though the holy movement of the divine Hand of God to stir the spirits of a group has been captured by a man and wielded as a new title. This is unfathomable when you think it through carefully.
We are given clear Scriptural evidence to evaluate the authenticity of a Pastor or Teacher and care must be taken to rightly divide the Word of Truth so as not to be deceived by those who bring another gospel.
Paul tells us in Romans that he does not desire any of the brethren to be ignorant of a mystery, lest they become wise in their own opinion, but blindness has come upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. This has become clear to me that in the last times there is another blindness that might be wrought in the land and that among some who claim to be spiritual and wise by their own imaginations that are truly ignorant of a great mystery.
Please bear with me while I unpack this difficult and agonizing revelation of the Spirit, but I am at a loss to be able to speak it without foundation and careful considerations of what I have had revealed to me over the last decades and especially recently when I received an invitation to attend a conference referred to as “WIRED CONFERENCE!”
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I will start with this very short book in Scripture called ‘Jonah’: Over the years, I have heard many sermons spoken and I have read others regarding this amazing book of utter unbelievable experiences. Who can believe a man is swallowed by a great fish and either lives or dies, but in the end is vomited out on dry land and either resurrected from the dead or was alive in the fish and lived to be vomited out—either way it is nearly impossible to grasp what has happened here and to have someone believe this is even more incredible. He is told to go preach to a people not his own. Who can understand what was written here about a little known son of Amittai who the Lord spoke to and said, “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry out against it; for their wickedness has come up before Me.”
Hundreds of sermons and thoughtful writings of hundreds of scholars, theologians, believers and non-believers alike have not made this any more understandable than what is actually recorded here—except for one thread that is woven through this tapestry by God Himself. Few have preached what this book is really about and WHO it is about, and fewer still realize the truth behind having it in the canon at all. It is the LAST SENTENCE. “And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?” The whole intent of this revealing of the things of man is about GOD, not a fish, not a sea story, not a city, not a man called to go to that people and speak thus—but of GOD HIMSELF. Should I not have pity?
Israel has been blinded for a season, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. God has blinded them because they would not see. He has given them eyes that cannot see and hearts that cannot find peace for a season. If Israel—the apple of His eye is blinded why not the apostate church at the end of this age? Would He even find FAITH when He returns?
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I have found that a similar blindness is coming to many in the land who call themselves believers, who are bringing upon many a deception to those who do not seek the Living God by His Word, but attempt to seek Him through the stories and anecdotal storytelling of some who claim to have a direct and personal line of understanding to God HIMSELF. Their claims are not backed up by Scripture, but because the ear is tuned to a desire rather than the evidence, those listening to these so called preachers are being deceived by the thousands and hundreds of thousands, men who argue a fantastic twisting of the Scripture to part money from those who are in ‘Nineveh’ rather than bring them the true message of destruction lest they repent. They do not know their right hand from their left, and it is only the Grace and Wonder of this Glorious and magnificent God we serve that we are allowed to repent and be saved at all.
“The time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an Evangelist, fulfill your ministry.” This found in 2 Timothy 4:3-5 is precisely the warning to the believer.
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Today as I pondered this and struggled with the Lord in whether to even write this, I was struck with yet another revelation of Scripture that few if any really grasp, let alone take heed to.
Elijah had a servant named Elisha who served his master well. Because he witnessed that Elijah was indeed a man who sought the Living God, he wanted to be able to minister with an anointing similar to that which he had seen. Elijah told Elisha on a number of occasions that he would journey to another place but he would return and for Elisha to just wait for him. Elisha would not permit himself to be far away from his master and refused to wait but came with Elijah where ever he went. In the end, Elijah told Elisha that if he witnessed when Elijah was taken he would receive the mantle and whatsoever he declared would be done. It is recorded that Yahweh did 16 miracles including the miraculous utterances through Elijah that are recorded in Scripture. There are 31 miracles recorded including the miraculous utterances that were done by this same God under the hand of Elisha, and one after his death when a man was resurrected by touching Elisha’s bones which total 32—double that of his master. The promise fulfilled. However many times this is spoken, few if any really tell of Elisha’s servant Gehazi who actually committed sin and bore its penalty.
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Naaman was the commander of a great army in Syria but he had leprosy. There was a young woman living in Syria who had been a captive taken from her land Israel. When Naaman was discovered to have this terminal disease, this young girl said to her mistress, “If only my master were with the prophet who is in Samaria! For he would heal him of his leprosy.” Naaman went and told this to the king who sent Naaman to Israel to seek out this prophet and gave him a great treasure of gold and silver with a letter (understand this, the king of Syria is not a believer) to the king of Israel that read in part, “Be advised, when this letter comes to you, that I have sent Naaman my servant to you, that you may heal him of his leprosy.” The king of Israel read this letter and became angry saying, “Am I God, to kill and make alive, that this man sends a man to me to heal him of his leprosy?” He did not understand it was not the prophet doing the healing—it was the GOD OF THE PROPHET doing the healing. Elisha heard that the king of Israel was upset so he said to him, “Why are you angry?” Let the man come to me and he shall know there is a prophet in Israel.
Naaman did not like the answer given him by Elisha, to wash himself 7 times in the dirty Jordan. He was furious, because he wanted to wash in one of the clean rivers of Damascus. He became angry and walked away in a rage is what the Scripture says, but his own servants quietly spoke to Naaman saying, “If the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, ‘Wash, and be clean’?” Well, you know the story, but do you really know Elisha’s servant?
Gehazi heard Naaman and his council offer Elisha the money, but what happened? Naaman pleaded with Elisha to allow him to go to the temple of Rimmon to worship with his master the king, and he leans on my hand, and I bow down in the temple of Rimmon—that when he bowed down may the Lord please pardon him. Elisha did not say “Don’t go to the temple” or “This is sin” but said “Go IN PEACE!”
Afterward Gehazi left and caught up with Naaman and he told him something that escapes many in this day and time. “All is well. My master has sent me, saying, ‘Indeed, just now two young men of the sons of the prophets have come to me from the mountains of Ephraim. Please give them a talent of silver and two changes of garments’.” Well, Gehazi came back to his master Elisha who did not need to be told of men what Gehazi had done. “Where did you go, Gehazi?” The answer, NOWHERE! Elisha said to him, “Did not my heart go with you when the man turned back from his chariot to meet you? Is it time to receive money and to receive clothing, olive groves and vineyards, sheep and oxen, male and female servants?”. Then the leprosy Naaman had was given to Gehazi and he was white as snow. NOT ANOTHER WORD IS SAID OF GEHAZI.
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Do you understand the word-picture, dear reader? Do you grasp what this means? There were in times past honest men preaching the true and Living Gospel of Christ, but a number of them were students under these great men of God and they took up a gospel that is not from God, and they will bear the recompense of this sin in THAT DAY.
Here is what I received from the Lord early this morning:
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There once was a day when honest men spoke honestly about the Word of the Lord, but in this day many have become as Gehazi, they have smitten the church with a false doctrine that if they would give unto the preacher, God would give 10-fold or more back to them. Well-meaning people, desiring to do right, have given countless amounts of wealth to these preachers who are bringing a doctrine not of the Lord but by clever arguments of their hearts. They have been deceived into thinking they have a power and an access to the Living God that they really do not possess; and then, by argument, they make shallow and undisciplined believers into like-minded men and women who willingly participate in a fraudulent and destructive doctrine of the mind of men.
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I am committed to doing what I am called to do and as the Lord lives, may He treat me so harshly if I have not spoken the TRUTH in this letter.
In Jesus the Christ
By Ray Grosser on Feb 23, 2009
A very important and timely word, Ray. Thank you.
There is a website www.batteredsheep.com who minister the grace and life of Jesus to people who have been “battered” by such false teachings, have a look for yourself as it may be a useful resource in ministering healing and restoration. They provide good teachings for download on the areas of concern to those who have been wounded by such false teachers.
By Paul on Feb 24, 2009
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By Moderator 2 on Mar 3, 2009
Sorry mate, I got carried away. It won’t happen again. RG
By Ray Grosser on Mar 9, 2009
Ray,
A great post! Thanks.
By greygum on Mar 15, 2009
Beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing. Some are not what they claim to be.
Something Grandma taught me. Ever the devout Lutheran.
By the GhostPony on Apr 15, 2009
I want to give a very late response to the comment from Ross on Dec 20 2008, where he said, “If there are any more goings-on like Todd Bentley, I will become a cessationist and and turn into a conservative evangelical. Open Brethren would do quite nicely!”
This is something I’ve also been thinking about (semi-seriously!).
I was prompted by the Lakeland false revival to check things out in a bit more detail, and I came to the sad conclusion that the majority of high-profile figures in the charismatic and pentecostal worlds are heretics and/or deceivers. Quite apart from their own doctrinal and methodological issues, virtually everyone endorsed Lakeland, which puts a massive question mark over their spiritual discernment.
Likewise numerous local churches with well-meaning pastors jumped on the Lakeland bandwagon and seemed incapable of asking even the most basic questions.
Whilst my links to this whole sorry affair have been minimal (my church is far too sensible), the charismatic movement has been my spiritual home for 25+ years and I have taken the view that the power of God and gifts of the Holy Spirit are for us all today.
But now I’m not so sure. Everyone seems corrupt and, if we’re honest, have we ever seen a genuine miracle? So I am wondering if the cessationists are right after all, and have been having a bit of a crisis of faith.
By Anastasis on Jul 20, 2009
Anastasis,
Yes, so many ‘leaders’ have a much stronger streak of ambition than a heart for the people they are called to be shepherds for. This infection is seriously widespread across the body of Christ: and non-charismatic evangelical Christians suffer from it too - and many have swallowed the ‘health & wealth gospel’ hook,line and sinker without searching the scriptures. Acts 17:11 has a vital habit for each of us.
I’d encourage you to continue exercising your discernment. Not all pentecostal or charismatic leaders are in it for the money, for the girls/guys, for their own glory. And what is called the charismatic movement these days is “a bird of a different feather” to the charismatic movement of the 1960s and 70s.
There is genuine charismata and occasional wonders and signs [at least in the Western world, though they seem more frequent in reports from places where there is an underground church] - and regrettably false, too. Pseudo-christianity is more attractive for some than daily taking up the cross and following the One who endured its humiliation and death for us.
You have brothers and sisters throughout the world who walk this difficult transition and testing time.
May Jesus be close to you,
By Paul, a small potato on Jul 21, 2009
Regarding Hillside comments. Philip, you are correct in everything you have said over the years in relation to churches. As a child I attended the first A.o.G. meeting in Brisbane. Garnet Budge introduced into Mt. Gravatt, with his members (most being offspring of the oldest of Pentecostals), a zeal for souls, numbers and growth. He had A.o.G. teachings and we all there experienced moves of the Spirit of God with the Gifts, despite ongoing deadness. Reg Kliminiok came into that scene, benefitting from what had been installed there and also greatly from what was occurring at Christian Outreach Centre under Clark Taylor, who commenced well.
Clark was initially with Ps. Chandler and Ps. Midgley and then started out on his own. He did have with him a few old Pentecostals (A.o.G. fashion), who injected gospel, Bible and the outpouring of the Spirit. Sadly he wandered off into “Latter Rain” movement teachings and present day errors of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement world-wide. Just a few years after Trevor Chandler, Frank Houston (who actually was the founder of what is now known as Hillsong), visited C.O.C. and in Sydney began to emulate the growth. He, his son, and Clark have influenced all Australia.
Pentecostal old-timers cannot stand the music in all these churches, rightly, because the fifties and sixties rock/drug scene is the real beginning of the horrific downslide into the present bog of this and the last generation’s immorality, single parents and other sins.
Youth, perverse, blind, unbiblical but excitedly enthusiastic has ignored the faith of the fathers, particularly our father, the Apostle Paul. Brian Houston himself said he and his listeners should not “follow our fathers”. Christianity seems to be rock music worship, rock concert movements, enthusiasm, no negativity, no true gospel, no true book of Acts but much entertainment.
All believers are exhorted to warn and encourage. We encourage individuals to do what Jesus said, “If ‘any man’ hear”, when He denounced the churches. We exhort believers to get to know and imbibe the actual Truths of the Gospel in all of its pristine glory. We warn all Pastors to look at where we have arrived and all to repent. We warn all believers, lovingly, particularly the beautiful new ones who have come in over the past thirty years, to truly examine the Epistles and thus find the rock foundation on which to build.
By Irene Bonney Faulkes on Aug 12, 2009