Christian Witness Ministries

PENTECOSTAL DISGRACE - Catch the Fire Honouring the Late Frank Houston

July 13, 2007 – 11:47 pm

EDITORIAL COMMENT: The words below constitute a verbatim transcript of the above sound bite of Danny Nalliah’s introductory public statement at the Catch the Fire thanksgiving service in Melbourne on Saturday May 26, 2007. It relates to the honouring of the late Frank Houston. The bold print is Philip Powell’s [PP] analysis of Danny Nalliah’s [DN] talk.

Starts abruptly -

[Danny’s introduction:]
[DN] - The Lord placed in my heart very strongly that where there is no honour there is no power. And then He said to me, He said ‘Son there are many fathers and mothers in this land who have served tirelessly in this nation. They didn’t have all the equipment today’s generation has but they did it and they did it well.’ And He said, ‘Son we need to honour them, you need to honour them, love them, cheer them and tell them how much we love them.’ And I’m looking at a generation, which has values which we desperately need in this generation. We are, I think, a very rich country but unfortunately morally and spiritually we are almost bankrupt.

[PP] Danny Nalliah lays claim to hear directly from God who he says addresses him as ’son’. Please note this appears several times throughout his speech. It is non biblical to claim that God addresses anyone in this way other than His Only begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. This is dangerous neo-Pentecostal or Charismatic jargon. That aside the idea that where there is no honour there is no power is unscriptural. The biblical claim is that a ‘prophet’ is without honour only in his own country (John 4: 44). Our Lord cited that principle and did nothing to remedy it. He simply made it as a statement of fact, yet performed miracles notwithstanding that fact. No where is there the thought that we have to honour other men in order to experience God’s power ourselves which is the obvious idea that Danny is driving at. It is totally unbiblical. In fact the way Mr Nalliah applies his idea is something that Scripture tells us NOT to do. We are not to honour each other in this way. The Bible tells us that if we seek to honour or please men we cease to be true servants of Christ cf. Galatians 1: 10; John 5: 44. This is serious stuff.

[DN] And these men and women have the values that this generation now and the next generation needs. That’s why we decided that we would bring this thanksgiving service today as a special event where we honour the fathers and mothers of the land. Of course, we cannot get everyone in town into the place, it’s not physically possible, but as the Lord led us we chose a few who will come and sit with us today. I want the guests to remain seated and the congregation to stand and give them a big clap.

There are some who couldn’t be with us today because they are travelling interstate and ministering in different locations but we will honour them in this service even though they’re not here. But also another great man who is now not now on earth but who is in the kingdom of heaven - we will be honouring the late Frank Houston and Hazel Houston.

[PP] Frank Houston was expelled by his denomination on account of serious sexual immorality - see the article The Honouring of the Late Frank Houston (But the God in whose hand is your breath, and whose are all your ways, you have not honoured - Daniel 5:23). The case for which Frank was disciplined was different from the case for which Peter Fowler, another of Frank Houston’s victims, obtained settlement with AoG-NZ for having been sexually abused by Frank Houston in the 1970s. Is this the value that this and the next generation according to Daniel Nalliah needs?

[Service continues with musical/dance items and the honouring of the guests who are present. Now we pick up again at the point beginning with the honouring of the late Frank Houston.]

[DN] - Back in the 1970’s as a boy of 12, I did not want to go to church. I was very rebellious. During this time there was a man who had come from Australia to speak at a church about 10 minutes away from where I lived in Sri Lanka. They said it was a man called Frank Houston. I said, ‘Who cares’, because I didn’t want to go to church. My mother said, ‘You have to go to church - he’s come all the way from Australia.’ I said, ‘I didn’t tell him to come’. She said, ‘No, you have no choice, you have to go to church.’ So well, my Dad dragged me along like a bull taken to slaughter. I was dragged to church that Sunday.

[PP] The charge for which Frank Houston was expelled by his denomination with the condition that he was never to preach on any AoG platform in New Zealand or in Australia related to a case of sexual abuse of a young man in the 1970s. There is now increasing evidence that irrespective of who brought that charge (it wasn’t Peter Fowler) against Frank it was NOT an isolated incident. According to Anthony Venn Brown’s website a person identified as the senior minister of CLC, Waterloo conducted counselling sessions which were “nothing more than sexual abuse disguised in the form of the need of a father’s love and discipline”. The person who was the senior minister of CLC Waterloo at that time was none-other than the late Frank Houston.

[DN] - I sat in a congregation of about 1,000 people. This man starts preaching and all heaven opened up. Demons were coming out, blind eyes were opening up and deaf ears were opening up. I think the word of God says something like this, correct me if I’m wrong - ‘these signs shall follow those who believe in Me; they shall have a big church, a BMW, a luxury house and they’ll have a PhD, a BA and an M-A-D.’ I think we’ve lost the plot.’ These signs shall follow those who believe in Me; they shall heal the sick, cast out demons.’ I didn’t want another sermon. I wanted to see the glory of God. I wanted to see a man who can show what is real. Church, that’s what the nation is looking for. They’re not looking for a church, which can have a hype-up, and a dance, and a movie, and “a this” and “a that”. People are looking for real Christians, fair dinkum Christians. What’s the difference if the church is similar to the Mosque or the cinema or the temple? Church has to be different. The power of God has to provide in the church. All of the qualifications are fantastic - we need them, that’s another chip for us, praise God for that - but if we don’t have the glory of God in the church we’ve lost the plot completely. We need to get back to the Word of God. We need to see the glory of God released into the church.

[PP] - Well now, just think for a minute. Ignore the ‘hype’ of Mr Nalliah’s claims - yes it is hype. The meeting occurred more than 30 years ago and about the same time when the late Frank Houston had committed sexual abuse against at least two young men in New Zealand. Think about Danny Nalliah’s claim. Remember Danny was a boy of 12 at the time. He recalls that “heaven opened up”, “demons were coming out”, miracles occurred. It all sounds so fantastic until you consider that this is claimed to be happening through this man Frank Houston who is now known to have been a homosexual paedophile and who actually committed those sins at around that time - in the 1970s. Does that really make sense?

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity - Matthew 7:22-23.

[DN] - And yes people were mocking, laughing, joking, but I saw a man of God who had come from Australia in the 70’s and started storming Heaven and God started moving and demons were coming out and the next thing he started walking towards me and I got really scared. I thought, ‘boy, he’s going to cast out demons out of me.’ He put his hand on my head and he starts saying this long story. I didn’t know that it was a prophesy about my destiny. I was sitting there thinking, ‘You’re embarrassing me; will you take your hand off me and please get out.’ But he just went on and he went on and he went on and I’m sitting there very embarrassed with everyone looking at me and thinking that I’m so privileged and I just felt embarrassed. And then a demon started manifesting and this man climbed the rafter and Frank Houston looked at the guy standing on the rafter on the roof and he said, ‘In the name of Jesus - down’. I thought if he falls down he’s going to break his legs. The next thing, the guy jumps - no legs broken but he fell right next to my feet and what do you think I did - I jumped for the aisle and ran for my life out of the church. But this man of God went on for 16 days and God moved mightily in Sri Lanka through this man of God who is considered an apostle to the nation of Sri Lanka. Then in 1994, he came back into Sri Lanka and he looked at me - I was worship leader and he said, ‘Son, the time has come, God is fulfilling His promise’ - not realising 20 years ago he had spoken destiny into my life.

I love Papa Frank with all my heart. I wish I could give him a big hug. I could not do that because I didn’t know where he was ever since I came to Australia in 1997. His wife was an absolute pillar of faith. I could go on and on. Let’s have the photograph up. That’s Papa Frank and his wife Hazel.

I’m going to ask Pastor Bob Cotton who was a son to Papa Frank and his wife Hazel to come and share a few words.

[Bob:] Thank you Pastor Danny. I love listening to the way Danny speaks when he speaks of our father in the faith, pastor Frank. The Bible teaches us that we have many teachers but not many fathers and, truly, Pastor Frank was a father in the Pentecostal Movement. He was one who loved to embrace ministers and share everything that he had with them including his passion for the presence and the power of the Holy Ghost. The apostle Paul said that when he came to the church at Corinth it wasn’t with wise and persuasive words but it was with a demonstration of the Holy Spirit’s power, so that their faith would be built not on the words of men or not on intellectual concepts but built on the power of God. And that’s exactly how I knew Pastor Frank Houston. He was a man who moved in the power of the Holy Ghost. His heart was for real salvations, real healings, and real deliverances. I was fortunate enough to be a guest in his house on numerous occasions and he and lady Hazel, as we’d call her, would come and visit our house and his conversation was always full of facts and stories and wonderful accounts about what he had seen Jesus do through him. He was an inspiration not just to me but to many other spiritual sons and daughters throughout this nation.

We know that Pastor Frank came to Australia at the age of 55 and commenced a work in Sydney from which something like 70 Pentecostal churches were planted. These churches were all marked with the presence of the Holy Ghost - a great Pentecostal legacy. We have many teachers but not many fathers. And often when I’d talk with Pastor Frank he’d say, ‘Bob, do you know what the problem with the church is today?’ And I’d say, ‘What Pastor Frank’, and he’d say, ‘They don’t speak in tongues enough. Hardly any of them would know how to cast out a devil if it stared them in the eye’. So I would ring him up sometimes and I’d say, ‘Pastor Frank. This devil - I couldn’t shift it the other day. What do you reckon?’ And he’d start to tell me a few little insights and different things that he’d known in the past, and we’ve seen many people come into freedom as we would apply the principles of scripture and the truth of the word of God. Pastor Frank loved the word of God and he had the faith to believe in a God of miracles. It’s my honour to stand here today and say Pastor Frank wasn’t just a father in the faith to me, he was one of my closest mates and I love him. I cherish his memory and, like Danny, I wish he were here so I could give him a great big hug tonight because there was nobody quite like ‘the bishop’ in Pentecostal circles and those of you who knew him would have to say amen to that.

I would like to say to Graham and to Beverly, thank you for sharing your Dad with us. Thank you so much for what he’s done. As I’ve travelled the world sometimes with Pastor Danny and at other times, you cannot go anywhere without hearing about Pastor Frank Houston when they find out you’re from Australia. It’s an honour to have know him. Thank you brother [referring to Danny].

[Danny:] We’ve been giving a plaque to everyone who’s been honoured, I’d like Bob to read what’s on the [Frank’s] plaque.

[Bob:] National Thanksgiving Day, Victorian Celebration, May 26, 2007. On the fourth National Thanksgiving Day, it is with much honour that we present this token of our appreciation to the late Pastor Frank and Mrs. Hazel Houston. Your valued service to the body of Christ over many years has been an investment in the heritage of our Nation and has given this Nation the opportunity to embrace and fulfil the prophetic destiny of this Southern land of the Holy Spirit. You have led the way, laid the foundation and have been strategic in implementing the God-given call upon your lives. This Nation and many others are richer because of your sacrifice and obedience. The name of the Lord is hallowed and His glory released because of your desire to release your anointing to establish His kingdom.

[The scripture on the plaque is from 1 Kings 2:2-4.]

David’s charge to Solomon: ‘So be strong, show yourself a man and observe what the Lord your God requires, walk in His ways and keep His decrees and comands, His Laws and requirements as written in the Law of Moses so that you may prosper in all that you do and where ever you go and that the Lord may keep His promise unto me. If your descendants watch how they live and if they walk faithfully before me with all their heart and soul you will never fail to have to have a man on the throne of Israel.’ - The Christian Community of Australia.

[Danny calls Frank Houston’s son Graham and daughter Beverly up on stage and presents them with the plaque.]

[Danny then reads out a short message from Brian Houston received via SMS on Danny’s cell phone:]

‘Dear Pastor Danny, thank you for honouring my father tonight. He impacted a multitude of people. Every blessing - Brian Houston.’

[Danny triumphantly:] “I want to make a declaration right now. This day on Thanksgiving day, we bring honour and respect to the Reverend Frank Houston and Hazel Houston.”

55 Responses to “PENTECOSTAL DISGRACE - Catch the Fire Honouring the Late Frank Houston”
When I read your article I was pleased to see that someone else has concerns about Danny Nalliah.

On his DVD “Call to Action - The Message”, Danny Nalliah includes four testimonies, (two from pastors and two from his employees) to promote himself as “the apostle to Australia”.
I bought the DVD when he visited my local church late in 2006. During his talk at the church he briefly spoke about Frank Houston’s affect on his life. At that stage I was unaware of Frank’s past and his eventual expulsion from his denomination.
On the night I was more concerned by Nalliah’s endorsement of Benny Hinn.

Since that night I have been on Nalliah’s mailing list. One email he distributed instructed recipients to vote Liberal in the last NSW state election. He had done the same thing prior to the Victorian state election, even boasting a few days later that Labor had already been defeated because of his campaign - in fact Labor were returned.

Late in June this year Nalliah notified his mailing list of a 1 hour 20 minute encounter he’d had with the Lord. During this time the Lord instructed him to organise a nation-wide prayer meeting on the 07/07/07 between the hours of 7 am and 7pm. “The Lord”, he said, also gave 7 promises to the church should they be faithful enough to meet for prayer between these times.
Immediately ‘alarm bells started ringing’ and more so when my local fellowship announced their involvement with Nalliah’s plans; considering he claimed that the Lord had given him these dubious promises I saw the issue was extremely serious and should not be taken lightly. I investigated Nalliah’s promises, compared them with scripture and then submitted a letter to the pastor and elders outlining why Nalliah’s claimed encounter and the 7 promises were bogus. I also pointed out the error of giving significance to the 7s in the date and times. However my warnings were unheeded and on the day after the prayer meeting I found the walls of the church building had been covered with printed up copies of each of the 7 promises. They were still there last Sunday, two weeks later (Sunday 23 July).

I have since found that similar meetings for prayer had been called around the world on that date. These were publicised prior to the date of Nalliah’s claimed encounter with the Lord. The organisers of one of these meetings (in Nashville) made reference to obscure scripture verses from the Song of Songs 8:6-7. Nalliah also used these verses to substantiate one of the promises allegedly given by the Lord. (The verse in fact had no relevance to Nalliah’s usage).

This occasion is not the first time that Nalliah has claimed a personal encounter with Jesus. In his autobiography “Worship Under the Sword” he reports that Jesus spent 2 hours 20 minutes with him in July 1997 to give him details of his future ministry.

Nalliah’s organisation in Australia also leans heavily on “the Great Southland of the Holy Spirit” idea [’prophecy’] from the 1600s - promoting the idea of widespread revival in this nation based on the promise of that ‘prophecy’.

By onesimus on Jul 23, 2007
I was a 23 year old ‘leader’ in the True Vine Christian Community in the early 80’s, in Northern NSW. The community was overseen by Frank Houston and the Christian Life Centre in Sydney.
We were a couple of hundred mostly young ‘flower children’ types, and it was a very special group (though things went seriously wonky in the end for many reasons).
It totally blows my mind to think that Frank was a homosexual and pedophile! I met him a number of times and I remember him describing me to the congregation as having a million dollar smile.
We were all so absolutely dedicated to being real with God, it just stuns me to think that he could have been hiding such an outrageous (by straight Christian moral standards) secret life!!!!
What a thick hide the guy must have had. I would even venture that he must have been borderline insane.
I am not technically a Christian any longer, and I know exactly why and I am happy with my own philosophy. I am someone who feels a strong relationship with God. I am not homosexual, but I am not phased by other people’s homosexuality. The thing I am phased by is someone pretending to be an apostle (which claim was made of him by many) while at the same time hiding ’sins’ that put him totally outside the pale!
For the whole 3 years I was a live-in member of that community I was celibate. I was constantly tempted to flirt and maybe go further with pretty girls in the community and outside it, but it just never occurred to me to give in. It’s not that damn hard to do!
I was there to serve Jesus, to give my life back to Him who died for me (that’s exactly what I believed).
If Frank had any real relationship with God he would have just left, or handed himself in. I always have kept a certain memory of him as a ‘great man of God’. Now, once again in my 49 years of life, I have discovered that a wise and noble person I have looked up to was in fact a turkey!
That’s one of the reasons I do not subscribe to any orthodox religious system - they are all created by other people just like us, and as you go on in life and grow older you realise that we are all turkeys in our own way! Why should I put my faith in what other turkeys believe?
I am only interested in the greatest and ineffable God, the real one. Whoever or whatever THAT is (surely not a human!)- the ‘I AM’ says it right. THAT I don’t understand, but that I trust. That’s real faith, no book of rules, just one little being to another (really really big) being.
God Bless you who choose to read thus far!
Write to me if you want.

By David on Sep 25, 2007
Just for the record I attended the Elim Pentecostal confrenece about 20 years or so ago and one of the guest preachers was guess who Pastor Frank Houston. I was only about 14/15 at the time and Frank had a profound effect on my life.

I was with a group of other young people from our Pentecostal church in Northern Ireland and we had such a great time with Pastor Frank who did spend a lot of time with the young people and was by the very nature of his character an attraction to my young friends and I at the time.

Pastor Frank related many stories and teachings to us at the time and also prayed for us, and as far as I was concerned he was a true man of God. Pastor Houston never ever came across to me at any time as having any other motive other than encouraging us as young christians which he undoubtedly did.

I would say Frank was flawless in the way he dealt with myself and my young friends at the time and at no point at all did he ever make any type of advances towards myself or, to my knowledge, my friends at the time - in spite of having opportunities to do so, due to the fact that on occasions (for instance after some of the services) at the time we approached him on his own to get more advice, counselling, prayer and direction.

I find it difficult to comprehend that Pastor Frank Houston could ever have hurt or harmed any young person as I even had cause to meet him about a year later when he visited Northern Ireland. At this time I had met Pastor Frank in my home town at my request and again he did nothing but encourage and pray for me

I am not very sure of the full and exact allegations in relation to Pastor Frank some years ago however my comments are purely entered here as a point of good character in relation to my memories of him and his dealings with me.

Robbie
Northern Ireland

By robbie on Nov 16, 2007
Interesting article, for sure.

By Observer on Nov 17, 2007
David
I would advise you to look up “Reformed Theology” read as much as you can, you will find that it will point you to a true understanding of the Bible and Christianity. It would also be helpful to read the “Westminster Confession of Faith”

By Stephen on Nov 27, 2007
Philip

ROBBIE:

There is no doubt that Frank Houston was a paedophile - probably throughout his life after he started down that path in the 1970s. I have no doubt he covered his tracks and so was a sort of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde character. This would account for your own good feelings towards him and experiences of him. I am sure others would support your story. It’s all very sad.

By philip on Nov 28, 2007
The Scriptures say that Preachers who lay their hands on people will ” HEAL THEM ” . Yet Danny Nalliah and others do the laying on of the hands and no cripple has ever got out of the wheelchair and done a brisk normal walk . I know why , do you Australia know why ? . It’s so simple , Danny Nalliah and all others Preachers have not been chosen to heal . I claim again , Danny Nalliah and all other Preachers have not been choosen to heal ; so please wake up you flock of silly people in the deceived silly Apostlic and Pentecostal Churches . Yes it means you and your church friends . So stop puffing up liars like Danny Nalliah by agreeing with them that they have God’s Power in the ” laying on of hands ” . STOP IT , STOP IT and STOP IT Australia .. Bunbury , Western Australia .

By John Murie on Dec 6, 2007
David,
Thanks for your contribution of 25/9, it was helpful. I was in True Vine Christian Community in 1983 in my early 30s, having been a Christian 20 years at that stage, and lived in this alternate community of Christ’s followers with real awe at the work of God’s Spirit in people’s lives, yet disturbed regularly at the pastor-worship that was promoted by Pastors Hoyle and Hansen, particularly toward Frank Houston. When believers accept an hierarchical structuring of corporate life it seems inevitable that mutual accountability flies out the window and the sins we are tempted with can be covered more easily. I’ve followed Jesus 42 of my last 44 years and continue standing amazed at God’s rich grace and mercy. The spiritual revival in True Vine CC was authentic - and the problems there had also occurred in other revivals in church history. While now receiving refreshment spiritually from the Evangelical, Reformed, Charismatic, and Pacific theological streams I receive most from contemplating the NT’s teachings. God works on in each of us.
Hyped-up churches seem to have bred a superficial spirituality, and sometimes a pseudo-spirituality, yet in among it all (and despite it) the deep and genuine work of the Holy Spirit continues in people thirsty to know the triune God. Leaders like Danny, Frank, Brian, etc seem to have strange ways of following the Man from Nazareth……. a lot of mud containing gemstones may be an apt description.
Allow me to encourage you, David, to continue following Jesus, the eternal Son of God, for each of us have been created for friendship with Him.

By Paul on Dec 18, 2007
Since the failure of his election prophecy, Mr Nalliah has been trying to deflect attention by highlighting the new government’s claimed pro-homosexual stance.

Does anyone see the irony of this, considering the way Nalliah has idolised Frank Houston?

By onesimus on Dec 18, 2007
Onesimus, you are quite right on the ironic (& deeply tragic) misplaced honour that is showered on certain popular leaders in a blanket-endorsement practice to one another, who are gradually being found-out for living double-lives. One wonders who will be next, nowadays, as it appears to be happening every other week - and the Australian movements in pentecost seem to have become extremely Americanised and subject to the same evil temptations.

In church cultures that promote the ’star performer’ mindset of ministry (including Evangelical, Liberal, Pentecostal, quasi-charismatic, Catholic, etc) there is very little ‘honouring one another’ toward the 99% of members of Christ’s body who also minister without big-potato titles. It’s as though there is an unspoken agreement that “if I say nice things about you then you’ll say nice things about me and I’ll quote you publicly to enhance my credibility and to discourage scrutiny of my message and my lifestyle”. Lavish lifestyles are maintained through very questionable teachings on tithing, extreme wealth acquisition, and new ‘revelations’ - which those who are trying to measure up to their guru’s expectations are swallowing hook, line, and sinker. Time to re-examine our ecclesiologies as well as our doctrines, don’t you agree?

What do you think of the ‘Australian Christian Churches’ brand name now being the name of the AoG in Australia …… have they hijacked it from the network of pentecostal denominations that used this name for the best part of the last decade? Or has A/G in Australia swalloped up their smaller brother-denominations? Without accurate info on their new website it leaves me questioning the integrity and accountability of the ‘big potatoes’ in such actions, and the acquisition of the name itself for sole use of certain groups smacks of total disregard of the millions of Australian Christians who are not associated with these brand-affiliated churches. This disgrace too is being lived out right now under our noses.

The 4 great temptations of preachers apply to each of us: gold……. glory……. girls/guys…….. & giving-up. Each of us need to continue repenting, reforming, and restoring as we follow Christ Jesus, the hope of our life.

….. a ’small potato’ .

By Paul on Jan 1, 2008
HOMOSEXUALITY � AOG
Is the admission by Brian Houston to sodomy [re his father Frank]? If so, why hasn’t anyone used the word. Homosexuality can mean various perverted sexual practices. What actually did he admit to?
Regards, - Greg.

By Greg on Jan 13, 2008
Greg, a Google search may be more beneficial in answering the specifics - a boy in NZ in 1970s and a trainee pastor in Frank’s church in Sydney in 1980s seem to be popping up most often.
Not sure this forum is able to get as specific as you may wish.
……..
Danny Nalliah must breathe a sigh of relief that we are under the New Covenant and not the Old, for as a false prophet (regarding Australia’s 11/07 federal govt election) he did not speak God’s words at all - see Deuteronomy 18:20-22. Yet he preaches Old Covenant tithing as continuing today, and disobeys the rest of this practice as he does not give it to Hebrew Levites.
Preachers seem to covet just as much as general society does, and not satisfied with their stipend they are increasingly seeking scandalous wealth through Scripture-twisting. Then they go on the visiting-preacher circuit to get more money a.k.a.’love offerings’ - a member of Frank Houston’s family once told me in the mid-1980s that Frank received over $100,000 p.a. in tax-free “love offerings” in addition to his generous stipend (partly-taxable). It seems a long way from following the Man from Nazareth.
…..
Has the result of the Victorian court case with Muslim people (over alleged vilification of Muslims in one of his meetings), and the generous support of a wide range of evangelical Christians during it, gone to Danny Nalliah’s head so much that he now regards himself as infallible? Beware, brothers and sisters.
Paul …a small potato

By Paul on Jan 16, 2008
I am pastor Everlyne.
living in kenya africa

I am a pastor who has just started a church were we
preach and teach the word of God
we also take care of the orphans and the needy we aslo
visit the sick in the hospitals we give them gift
we pray for them and shear the word of God with them
we will like to partner and affielate with your
ministry in net-working as we preach the
word of God here in kenya Africa
how can i get intouch with your ministy?

we will be greatful to have your fit back

thanks
yours
pastor Everlyne daniels
new life church international
P.O BOX 519mumias 50102 kenya
WESTERN PROVINCE
KENYA EAST AFRICA

By pastor Evelyne daniels on Feb 21, 2008
I was born a Catholic, Mum and Dad became Christians at CLC in Waterloo in 88.
I remember Frank very well. He prayed over my life when I was a little boy. He even gave me pocket money. To know now, over four years after he died, that he did this to little boys [and laying hands over my life when I was five] is a disgrace. It makes me realise you never know what people are like, even someone like pastor Frank. Gives me an understanding that lots of Christians are hypocrites. I’m 25 y.o and as I’m getting older I’m starting to see the truth. As it says “the truth shall set you free”. Funny how some of these Christians end up falling on their backside. The real teachers of the word preach from the heart and soul, love - not money or power. Rest in Peace pappa Frank. Still haven’t forgotten what you said many years ago.

By Adam Licari on Feb 24, 2008
It is my view that New Testament prophets never operated under an Old Testament mantle….

New Testament prophets only prophesy to confirm what the Holy Spirit has already revealed to you….they do not foretell….

By Paul on Mar 11, 2008
Hi Paul,
On what scriptural passages in the NT do you base this idea? Surely the one who prophesies as moved by the Holy Spirit must do so as the voice of God, a very solemn responsibility.
In what ways do you consider NT prophesying different from this activity under the Old Covenant, based on the NT passages you use?
……………… a small potato

By Paul on Mar 11, 2008
Hi Ya…the distinction between OT Prophets and NT Prophets..

Prophets of Guidance….
OT prophets were used especially in the realm of guidance, direction and enquiry of the mind and will of God…

People went to the prophet for such..no NT prophet was ever used in guidance and control of another person’s life…they were used ito CONFIRM..the already known and revealed will of God…

But, for NT believers, “as many are led by the spirit of God (not by a prophet), they are the sons of God” (Romans 8:14)

To resort to a prophet for direction, guidance or control … is to violate the privilege of New Covenant believers of having access and approach to God through Christ by the spirit..

By Paul on Mar 14, 2008
Paul - re New Covenant prophecy :
I must admit I’ve heard this teaching many times over the years & am now more unclear on prophesying than ever before. What passages of scripture do you base your understanding on re this?
(As I read the portion of NT times history recorded in the Book of Acts I notice that prophets did indeed give guidance, direction, and revealing of the will of God in their role.)
I have had some personal prophecies ‘over me’ and some that I think were just nice words to say by persons who thought they needed to show they were ‘flowing in the Spirit’ at the time. I’m not averse to the Lord graciously speaking to people through these avenues but these days I am sceptical of what it is, who may do it, what is it’s purpose, what is it’s degree of authority, should we audio-record these messages and retain & refer to them?
I’m not satisfied with the common Evangelical answer that prophecy today is inspired preaching. That concept relies on a theological rationalism that discounts the divine pneumatic activity of wondrous acts that occur throughout the world each day. (And I do accept that some preaching, with all its hours of preparation in prayer, Bible study & research, is indeed prophetic.)
It is an interesting conversation to have.
Paul…… a small potato

By Paul on Apr 21, 2008
Praise the Lord

I, Rev. Suleman Waheed living in Pakistan and working for the Great word of GOD. I am a senior pastor and Founder of Soul Saving Ministers in Pakistan. We are working for our Christian community in slum areas and help them for there various problem by the grace of GOD. He is the only King who provides us and using us for His great work.

Praise the Lord
We are made for His Work. We are living in a None Christian Country and their people need to know about JESUS CHRIST. But because of there illness and financial problem they cannot give attention to the GOD. But …
Halleluiah, He is our Savior. God helps us to do help them. This is our duty to do work for poor and needy Christian people. We are working and preach them Salvation to come to JESUS.

I am writing to you please pray for our Ministry and the great work of GOD that He provide us more blessings and we would be able to help them self.
Pray for Church Building.
Pray for Youth Education.
Pray for Poor Children Education fees.
Pray for Christian Jobs.
Pray for Christian Girls and women.
Pray for Christian Marriages.
Pray for Medical services.
Pray for Media Ministry.
Pray for Crusades.
Pray for Distribution of Food and Goods to poor people.
Pray for …………….

Rev Suleman Waheed.

By Rev Suleman Waheed on May 13, 2008
The account of DN’s honour of Frank Houston is not scripturally correct. A young King David, honours a fallen King Saul, both anointed with power.

David refuses opportunities to kill Saul, and later after the sad ending of Saul family, David brings into his palace a boy from Saul’s lineage and keeps him well.

Also in an epistle, it is foretold that in the last days, people will bring insults against heavenly beings.

I hold that like King David, Frank Houston repented from sexual immorality and the abuse of trust.

I discerned the Holy Spirit in his concepts for certain. I was a member in his church from 1997-1999. There were discernable prophetic words, interpretations of tongues, words of knowledge, secret questions answered, authority and good works. In accordance with the scriptures.

Compassion, encouragement, insight, answers.

Secret thoughts revealed. Were it not for this, I would not be born again, in accordance with John ch 3.

The practices of Frank and his church, were similar to John Wesley’s, and Jonathon Edwards, and also John Arnott’s.

Pity about Franks’ fall, many now miss the benefits, since they like a just reputation and dislike injustice, and think he acted.

I assure the readers, Pastor Frank whatever sins he committed, also repented, sought God’s presence and love, prayed as a just man, and gave Holy Spirited messages timely and with passion each week.

His vision statement is still available, and the basis for Hillsong, and many other “contemporary” style churches.

I hope you can accept that Frank was something of a Mary who was kept from stoning. Who turned and loved Jesus, and prayed and served Jesus and the apostles.

By Novatian on May 31, 2008
I was at True Vine in the early 80’s. It is a time I reflect on fondly. My communion with God is more nature-based and less humanly these days. Sometimes I can break out into a guitar-led worship-zone of rememberings. That’s what I gained from the True Vine experience, an understanding of worship, meaning-making and sustainable peace. It was an interesting community of practice at the time,defining rules of belonging that engaged very eclectic individuals. Everybody interrogated themselves about many things. These are the positive forces that I reflect on. Cheers to all of that era, love Sally Baker

By Sally Baker on Jul 4, 2008
Regardless of what any of us may think about Frank Houston or his alleged actions (of which he was never criminally convicted):

IT IS WRONG TO SPEAK ILL OF THE DECEASED…….

Whatever happened to ‘innocent until proven guilty’? Frank Houston was never proven guilty.

For all those who condemn Frank Houston, remember Jesus said “take the plank out of your own eye before you take the speck out of another’s”. And also “with the measure we Judge others will be the same measure we are judged by”

Frank Houston did far more in Australia, and the world, than most Christians ever do — so stop mocking and get of your lazy backsides and do something for God in your life.

I honour and respect what God did through this man and so should all who claim to be Christians.

By ben on Jul 6, 2008
Sally,
Blessings , great to read your note.
..
Ben,
He admitted to it, after being confronted by his son, Brian, and was expelled from A/G ministry.
.. & the Lord did use him despite his hidden sins, not something to emulate.

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 11, 2008
Ben,

You have to be joking!!!!!

By Wayne Capell on Jul 12, 2008
So many Christians are so twisted these days. No charges were laid against Frank… because Brian did not do as the law required, and immediately inform the police. All the discussions about Apostles, preachers, gifts and all that are of little value in light of this … it’s by someone’s fruit that you shall know them. I was heavily involved in a number of AOG church plants in the late 80’s and early 90’s and, having been in the pentecostal movement in the 1970’s and 80’s in NZ, had met Frank Houston a number of times. He was a nice guy as are the majority of pedophiles. Thankfully I studied theology at a non-denominational bible college and it certainly showed me how screwed pentecostal faith is and how unscrewed God is.
It’s not your works, worship and religious behavior that defines you - it’s who you are and how you live out your life. Tragically I don’t think that the day that the church gets it right [and is truly real] will ever happen - where every word that comes from the mouth behind the pulpit comes from the mouth of God… I don’t think so. God gave you a brain and free will, use it.

By Jackie on Jan 30, 2009
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By Moderator 2 on Mar 3, 2009
Similar to Frank Houston, Dr Mark Laaser was a pastor/ counselor who struggled with undealt issues of sexual brokenness.

After spending time to receive counseling and healing in the area of his woundedness in sexual areas, he now has a ministry to others who struggle with sexual addictions. His testimony is mentioned in this article he wrote: http://www.ecounseling.com/articles/394

Today, I just realized that Frank Houston, Pastor Brian Houston’s father, struggled with pedophilia and had molested young men.

Many parishioners fell spiritually because they were discouraged by his actions. However, I believe that this shows that there is still room for more sexual healing organizations. In an age, when everyone is bombarded with sexual temptations, the message of healing for sexual brokenness is ever more important.

Is it easy to come out of an addiction? It is definitely not just a matter asserting will-power. The truth will set one free, however. Counseling, digging up and dealing with woundedness that makes one susceptible to certain temptations and helping the person understand themselves is essential to healing.

It is not a matter of “I will force myself not to do what is wrong” without dealing with the roots of the problem. It is just like covering up a physical wound and pretending that it is not there. As if forcing oneself not to think of it can make it go away. It will not, and it cannot—in fact the wound would fester and breed more ‘germs’ if untended!

There is healing for pedophiles and homosexuals… there is healing to overcome the strong urge to do something unnatural… But, one has to face one’s own woundedness, uncover the wound, clean the wound, apply medication repeatedly, wrap up the wound and protect it from further contamination, and give it time to heal.

By Lilian Yap Hsu on Apr 5, 2009
Let’s not gloss things over with physcobabble, this former pastor didn’t “struggle with undealt issues of sexual brokenness”. He SINNED. Frank Houston didn’t “struggle with Pedophilia” - he was a filthy pedophile targeting young, innocent people in his care. However, if any parishioners fell spiritually because of another’s behaviour then I would say their faith was in that person, and not in the saving grace of Jesus Christ - because nothing anyone could or would do would sway my firm faith in Christ.

These people do not need healing for sexual brokenness. They need to REPENT of THEIR SIN. How is the person understanding themselves essential to healing? The only way to be healed is through faith in Christ, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and adherence to God’s word. 2 Tim 3:16-17 says “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”

When a Christian sins it is not by design and planning as with these men, it is a momentary lapse and the person is grieved and repentant.
To overcome sin and depravity you need to call it what it is not muddy the waters with terms like brokenness and woundedness. People in these situations need to fall on their face before almighty God and beg his forgiveness for their perverted ways, not get to know themselves better.

I firmly believe in the saying “If God hasn’t changed you, he hasn’t saved you”. Let’s stick with facts and call it like it is, the problem with a lot of Christians today is that they are so afraid of offending anyone with the truth, yet they don’t seem worried about offending our Lord and Saviour by perverting and/or ignoring his word and instruction on dealing with life’s issues. We should be in earnest prayer for people such as these that they would come to know Christ and be filled with the Holy Spirit so they can live godly lives, pleasing to our Lord.

By Pearl on Apr 6, 2009
Dear Pastor ,

My name is Rev. Kellam Nyongesa. I am a pastor and am pastoring a congregation of about 150 people and overseeing 27 other churches in Kenya, Africa. I happened to come across your contact on the web and was greatly touched and ministered to as I read through your Mission, God bless you great for obeying his Voice to minister this kind of healing to the Body of Christ. Would you please pray with us about the possibility of Coming to Africa some day if the Lord allows and maybe do some ministry in this area?

Our Postal address is;-

Webuye God’s Grace Church,

P.O.Box 682 ,

Webuye 50205 ,

Kenya East Africa

Phone +254 735 899 252.

God bless you and keep you.

Rev.Kellam & Pst.Rose Nyongesa

By Rev.Kellam Nyongesa on Apr 9, 2009
I was also a 23 year old `house leader’ in the True Vine community in the 80’s. I clearly remember that pastor Frank’s response to the bewilderment and distress being suffered by three hundred good souls who found their whole world caving in was to send a video of himself spouting nonsense. This act of spiritual guidance was only surpassed by the arrival of two Christian Life Centre charlatans (from Sydney) who conducted the last True Vine meeting that I attended. The most truly shameful act that I witnessed done in the name of God. The single mother screaming as `demons’ were being delivered out of her as her young children watched is my most vivid memory. I left and went to the pub for the next 20 years. Peace and love to all survivors. Paul S.

By Paul S on Apr 22, 2009
Deliverance Ministry with screaming is not nice, or caring, blunt power. Yes, it could have turned me away too. Thankfully my basis for commitment was all by myself, with Jesus in repentance when I was 18. Frank Houston was an encouragement to me though.

I don’t believe he struggled with sexual sin, I think he overcame, otherwise all the others could not have overcome. So for years and years he was clear like Mary Magdalene. But maybe should not have been a Bishop.

Everyone must have some ministry as in Corinthians 12…

Our Pentecostal theology, why criticize it? Where is a link explaining?

Paul the apostle wanted the Gospel preached even from false motives, as against himself. Let the Magdalene like be held believeable

Did Frank truly repent from the heart, and receive power over sin and Satan?

By Novatian on Apr 25, 2009
There is no grab that I can grip in your comment Novation. Just as there is no defence for the indefensible.

By Paul S on Apr 27, 2009
Paul S, this is a Christian not military issue. Look at the Bible references, tell me what you think, such as Jesus defenses as with Mary M. And please use the Bible concerning Biblical, Christian, will of God not man issues. Otherwise your view is of men not God.

I want to pay attention to God regarding God and not men. Cricket is different.

I attend church and hear points weighted by verses and testimonies.

By Novatian on Apr 29, 2009
We are sons and daughters, Danny N according to the real Christian experience of Romans 8:15 and Galatians 4:6, is called “son” and calls God “dad” or “abba father”.

I hope people will forgive the late pastor (Houston), for it is hard. But if we forgive, we are free from being bound hand to neck. And Jesus forgave as an example to us. Please forgive him and any of us, who seemed to not to care. I am sure we all believe that God is just and merciful in balance and He will deliver discipline or has.

It is not good for there to be “us and them” among sinners. We all admire Jesus and He does not reject people. James wrote that must not discriminate. All sit on seats in church. Jesus died “the just for the unjust” He saves all. Matthew 9:13.

People try to turn some away, and confess and think they have their way, but Jesus wants all evangelized. I didn’t like this being done to me, so now and others too may, demand an apology.

Forgiveness should have been asked for before the offering was made. Matthew 5:23-24.

The cross of Christ is for redemption indiscriminately. And restoration of grace and honour and justice, love… with Jesus’ perfection for our brokenness… Justified by faith not works. And reconciliation between enemies. Jesus fills all the holes.

By Novatian on May 3, 2009
A self-proclaimed man of God and self-confessed pederast. You’re right Novation, it’s just not cricket

By Paul S on May 6, 2009
I did not understand “indefensible” yes the action was a terrible injustice. Yes I would not defend the action.

Biblically, 1 Corinthians 6-7 and the Gospel show it unclean, unholy, against the history of the body. I hope for the best recovery for the victim. And vindication in Christ.

God’s grace is great, for all redeeming and restorations.

Please forgive me if I was unclear or unjust.

By Novatian on May 25, 2009
Peace, Novation, I’m just a voice. I have no right nor wish to stand in judgement over you. Would it be that there were more like you with the ability to take a step back. The church would be a much healthier place.

By Paul S on May 28, 2009
Frank Houston was a very sad case. Given an honorary doctorate in the 1980s the title was paraded as if he’d achieved that level of academic expertise - in Australia the ‘Dr’ title is never used by recipients of honorary doctorates.
Given a nickname “the Bishop” some of his followers treated him as if he was a spiritual super-man.
Earning many 10s of thousands of dollars yearly in “tax-free” love offerings, he didn’t contribute to the nation financially through paying extra tax, a share of this lucre he’d gained in addition to his church salary.
These in addition to regular “flirtations” detailed in the above posts.
.

It all highlights how poorly-developed is the ethical system of so many Christians. Because they haven’t diligently studied the whole New Testament, but have only focused on the “God will bless me” Scripture passages, the result is a startling ignorance of the divine wisdom, counsel and ethical foundation.
.
And what legacy is now in Frank’s family? One of Frank’s sons preaches a message indicating the idea that we can serve God and mammon, and he’s become a millionaire-preacher by preaching motivational messages with a Bible verse thrown in. This son’s 3 sons are now preachers too, apparently. It’s a worry.

By Paul, a small potato on May 28, 2009
Psalm 40, of the word of God, is excellent here. Together with the Gospel passages about ones who have not sinned casting the first stone, and the sinners coming ahead of the just to be baptized by John.

I am sure that Frank, whose deservance of honour was impacted with great negativity, by gross sin, that he repented, people, the wicked, really do turn from sin. I am sure he fought sin. It makes one humble to fight sin.

Then as in Psalm 40, others say “aha, aha” and mock the idea one with faulterings could possibly have a revelation and experience of God’s love and truth. The idea one should listen to him is ridiculous, but worthily, for all time the Psalmist and David as well show His love and teach us His truths.

Our struggle is with sin, Jesus came from the 99 for the lost 1. It is much about sin and the power is to save the preacher and the sinners who hears.

May God show you your withered arm, and flood you with healing love and fill you thoughts with truths, to the Father, in Jesus name, amen.

By Novatian on Jan 28, 2010
I agree with Pearl. There are too many “Christians” pussy-footing around trying not to offend people but in the act they are OFFENDING GOD and the precious Holy Spirit. Why do you think that so many prayers go unanswered? Sin is sin - and we need to repent DAILY for our sins, we need to fall on our faces and be broken before God on an ongoing basis. This is why God called David a man after His own heart, because David recognised his sin and repented daily.

Prophets spoke the word given to them by God regardless of how it offended the people. Most of them died because of this. Being a Prophet means that you speak what God tells you to speak - and it is always backed up by scripture. It does not add to Scriptue but exemplifies what God has already said.

By Elizabeth on Feb 9, 2010
Part of a sermon outline on our manner of speaking to one another, may be useful here

I. DIFFERENT TYPES OF TALKERS

A. THE IRREVERENT…
1. Who use the Lord’s name in vain - Exo 20:7
2. That is, without an attitude of sincere respect
3. One can be guilty of this in two ways:
a. Using the Lord’s name in swearing or cursing
b. Using vain repetitions of His name carelessly
c. Applies also to the name of Jesus, for His name is to be held in honor - Php 2:9-11
— Common in everyday speech, especially in entertainment

B. THE EVIL…
1. Speaking words that are evil - 1Pe 3:10
a. Lying words - Pr 6:19
b. Deceitful words - Ro 16:18
c. Filthy words - Ep 5:4
2. Speaking evil of others - 1Co 6:9-10 (revilers)
a. Those in authority - Exo 22:28; Jude 8
b. Those around us - Mt 5:21-22
— Common in everyday speech, especially in business and politics

C. THE CARELESS…
1. The overuse of words
a. Speaking too often - Jm 1:26; Pr 10:19
b. Speaking too hastily - Pr 29:20; cf. Jm 1:19
2. The misuse of words
a. Flattery - Ps 12:1-4; cf. Ro 16:18
b. Rash oaths - Mt 5:33-37; Jm 5:12
c. Unwholesome words - Ep 4:29
3. Including euphemisms
a. An inoffensive expression substituted for one considered offensive
b. Some examples (darn, shoot, gosh, gee)
c. What is wrong with such expressions?
1) They mean the same thing as the more offensive words
2) It is the same wrongful emotions behind the euphemism or its equivalent
3) They reflect an attitude contrary to the spirit of Christian conduct - cf. Ep 4:31-32
— Common in everyday speech, even among many Christians

E. THE GRACIOUS…
1. Whose speech leads to edification
a. That which encourages and builds up - Ep 4:29
b. That which extends grace to others - cf. Col 4:6
2. Whose speech expresses thankfulness
a. Which is fitting saints - Ep 5:3-4
b. An attitude of gratitude befits saints - Col 1:12; 2:7; 3:15,17; 4:2
c. Not befitting saints is complaining - Php 2:14
— Uncommon in everyday speech, but should be common among Christians!

[Why aspire to become the gracious talkers God wants us to be? Besides being judged by our words in the day of judgment (Mt 12:36-37), consider some more reasons for the…]

II. IMPORTANCE OF PROPER TALKING

A. WORDS REVEAL OUR HEARTS…
1. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks - Mt 12:34
2. Speech reveals the sort of treasure stored in our heart - Mt 12:35
— Have you considered what your words reveal about you?

B. WORDS OFTEN HURT OTHERS…
1. Lying and flattery can be destructive - Pr 26:28
2. Gossip creates strife, destroys friendships - Pr 16:27-28; 17:9
3. Neighborly relations can be destroyed - Pr 11:9
4. The tongue can indeed be a destructive fire and a powerful poison - Jm 3:5-8
— Contra the childhood ditty, “Sticks and stones…”, words can hurt!

C. WORDS CAN BLESS OTHERS….
1. By cooling down heated conversations - Pr 15:1
2. By comforting the anxious - Pr 12:25; 16:24
3. By delighting those who hear - Pr 15:4,23; 25:11
3. By offering grace to the hearers - Ep 4:29; Col 4:6
— Do our words impart grace to the hearers?

[The potential for much harm but also much good should encourage us to take our speech seriously. With that in mind, here are some…]

III. STEPS TO BETTER TALKING

A. GUARD YOUR HEART…
1. “For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” - Mt 12:34-35
2. “Keep your heart with all diligence, For out of it spring the issues of life.” - Pr 4:23
3. “The heart of the wise teaches his mouth, and adds learning to his lips.” - Pr 16:23
4. As often said today, “Garbage in, garbage out.”
— Be careful what you allow into your heart and mind

B. GUARD YOUR LIPS…
1. “He who guards his mouth preserves his life, but he who opens wide his lips shall have destruction.” - Pr 13:3
2. “Whoever guards his mouth and tongue keeps his soul from troubles.” - Pr 21:23
3. “Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth…” - Ep 4:29
— Be careful what you allow to come out of your mouth

C. THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK…
“The heart of the righteous studies how to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours forth evil.” - Pr 15:28

— Give thought as to the consequences of what you say before you say it

D. PRAY ABOUT YOUR SPEECH…
1. “Set a guard, O LORD, over my mouth; keep watch over the door of my lips.” - Ps 141:3
2. “Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Your sight, O LORD, my strength and my Redeemer.”
- Ps 19:14
— Pray that the Lord help you to speak with grace and kindness to others

CONCLUSION

We should never forget the power of speech…
a. To hurt others, to hurt ourselves
b. To bless others, to bring glory to God

……………

What’s that passage again about us making sure our communications are seasoned, as salt is ?

By Paul, a small potato on Feb 13, 2010
When a person receives Jesus, they are accounted as righteous. “If we sin, we have one that intercedes on our behalf”, Jesus. Change is gradual, but before change if ones dies, is he/she saved?

Can we go back and forth from son of God to son of Satan?

Covered in Jesus’ blood God sees Jesus’ righteousness, or justice.

I think you are self-righteous, not seeing from Jesus’ view.

By Novatian on Feb 18, 2010
Hi.
I found your Web Site by Google
And I wish you the best you can get,
the peace of God through Jesus Christ.

You are welcome to visit my Site.
Allan Svensson, Sweden
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/INDEX.HTM

The Bridegroom comes, Come out to meet him. Matt. 25:6.
From where shall we go out? We shall go out of the great
Babylon, the great whore. Rev. Chapter 17 and 18. This
command of the Lord in Rev. 18:4 is now highly topical.

Never before we have been so nearly Jesus’ coming as we
are now, but how are God’s people prepared? How is the
unity in the faith? Sorry, very bad! God’s people are more
divided now than ever before. Instead of following what
the Bible teaches about the Assembly of God, they have
followed Satan’s false assembly doctrine. They believe
that the Assembly of God is constituted of church systems
and many religious organizations.

Most Christians have not yet begun to prepare for Jesus’
coming. They can speak and write that Jesus shall come,
and about the signs of the time, yet they do not make any
preparation to meet Jesus. How can we make a preparation?
To make preparation and be ready for Jesus’ coming, God’s
people must get the knowledge of the Assembly of God.

All God’s people must in the first hand begin to study what
the Bible teaches about the Assembly of God. What we
need now before the restoration of the Assembly of God,
it is humility before God’s word and a forgivable disposition
to each other.

The Assembly of God is no Pentecostal church. Please,
consider what this expression “the Assembly of God” in the
reality implies. The Assembly of God must be the same as
the Greek word “ekklesia”, and the Body of Christ. 1 Cor.
12:12-31. Then it is easy to understand that this has nothing
to do with the Pentecostal Movement. Pentecostal churches
have existed about 100 years, but the Assembly of God has
ever existed since Jesus baptized his first disciples by the
Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gave them the new life in Christ
so that they became born anew. Then the Assembly of God
was born.

The Bridegroom comes, Come out to meet him
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/CRY.HTM

Evil spirits in the churches
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/SPIRITS.HTM

The great falling away
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/MESSAGE.HTM

What does hinder the Antichrist to appear?
What is the Restrainer?
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/MESSAGE.HTM#Antichrist

KJV, “the best English Bible” but not perfect
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/KING.HTM

Why did the Pentecostal Revival take an end?
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/CRISIS.HTM

The truth of the baptism by the Holy Spirit and the new birth
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/CRISIS.HTM#baptism

Jesus cannot come today because God’s people are not ready
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/TODAY.HTM

By Allan Svensson on Mar 25, 2010
That’s an interesting view on the phrase “Assembly of God” - though I don’t think too many people have used it that way to represent the regenerate believers throughout the New Covenant era. To most people “Church of Christ” and “Church of God” would convey the same meaning [although there are also some denominations and non-denominations who use these as their brand names].
There was a time when holiness was a driving motivation within Pentecostal churches such as AoG generally, and many people within them were truly full with the Holy Spirit. Being refilled regularly [’topped-up’] was normal to the life - as per New Testament teaching.
Now many seem addicted to the ‘rush’ from ‘the Baptism’, a visiting speaker’s exotic take on some subject, the ‘new move’ [of the Holy Spirit] in such-&-such town, the excitement produced becomes contagious. Today in such churches believers living in all kinds of sinning states are being accommodated very comfortably as the focus is the show, the performance, the platform ministry - and very small attention is paid to actually doing the ‘one another’s commanded by our Lord and the apostles. The body of Christ is not healthy when parts are addicted to adrenalin,
.
Surely we need to reach out to each other and invite someone out to have a coffee or tea, or lunch, and over months build the kind of trust that can enable heart-level ministry. It’s amazing how we can function under the Spirit’s guidance when we’re not in it to impress anyone.
You may even find that some “official members” are not yet saved, like I have recently found. This is an opportunity to lead them to saving faith, for they are clearly interested.
A whole church being hospitable, building real friendship, encouraging [& challenging] one another is a healthy church, IMO.

By Paul, a small potato on Apr 11, 2010
I attended Frank Houston’s church and Bible college back in 1988-1990 and I remember a conversation I had with him and the hurt he caused by standing down a person wrongfully. I am not the same person spiritually because of him. He was no saint. As a child I too was sexually assaulted. It hurts me to think that Brian Houston never reported this to the Police. God may have used him, but he will always be remembered as a child molester in my eyes.

By kellie miller on May 24, 2010
I am concerned that Kellie says she is ‘not the same person spiritually’ because of F.Houston (now deceased). Also going back to a previous posting almost three years back, someone said much the same thing. What is it that seems to be able to damage folk coming out of the Houston camp I wonder? And don’t kid me that Brian H. encourages thousands to Salvation because this does not wash - mainly because it is boasting - and secondly because the Day of Salvation is a future event and not one in the past.
Kellie, could you perhaps share in what way you have changed, and can you remedy this in some way?

By Abraham on May 24, 2010
What did you mean by “standing someone down”?

Is it possible to remember Frank according to what Jesus intended him to be, and consider what he has been made since dying? We are not our actions, our sins or our business.

What I see looks like anger which has never been let go of in forgiveness , which is the consequence of not saying sorry as openly as the injustice was open.

So Brian should have reported this to the police? Didn’t he? What would it have done? How can it hurt that he didn’t? What can the police do? Frank not suffering makes some people hurt? Why so?

By Novatian on Jul 21, 2010
Novatian,
No, Brian Houston did not report this confession by his father, to the police. Every pastor is in a place of trust in their community. They are also required by law in Australia to report cases of abuse or cases where they genuinely suspect abuse - this is mandated of them, and over-rides the requirement for confidentiality. Brian has no excuse for not reporting this to the NSW Police whose duty is to contact the NZ Police regarding Brian’s father’s abuse of at least one minor in NZ some decades before.
.
Is forgiveness available? Yes, absolutely.
.
Should justice be an ongoing concern for action by all Christians? Yes, absolutely.
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How would you feel if you had been violated as a young person by your pastor, Novatian, only to see those who knew cover it up (’sweep it under the carpet’ so to speak) even though they could have done something about it? Put yourself in the victim’s place and consider the impact of that betrayal both through the perpetrator’s evil behaviour and through the lack of action in bringing him to justice by those who covered it up. This is not how members of the body of Christ should function.
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So what good would it have done to bring these evil deeds to the light?
For one it would have supported the victim and the burden they carry. And for another it would have shown all that the Pentecostal Christians in Australia value purity, holiness & truth more highly than covering up a mate’s sins.

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 21, 2010
Paul, Brian expelled Frank from ministry, that is his responsibility. Tough deal. Paul the apostle dealt with sexual sins without the pagan authorities. Ours are based on the Gospel and Moses, not paganism, but are not designed for church. That is, thirty years on. For this victim brother had many opportunities, hundreds. It must have been hard, complex in shame…

The police and judges have no defined understanding, as I know but a little of law, to help anyone in these situations. It is not known if the victim saw it as help, or revenge, or divine exactings…

Hazel Houston is the one who did not act, it may be, and I think no one else knew.

No Pentecostal pastors knew and covered up the sins, true?

Jesus paid the prices of victims and victimizers. The law is there to protect and warn - punishment as pay back, could serve God too - and then they have some of their discipline, should lead to justice at heart and peace. Not continual sorrow. Sorrow has its place, not life long.

Forgiveness is available, yes. Frank, according to the Gospel, should have made peace with the young man before he made his sacrifices on the altar. Matthew chapter 5:23.

The answer is receiving Jesus blood for both. The young man may have missed his needs. The Heavenly Father knows all loss and restorations.

There is justice and saving justice. If caught early, the long arm of the law could rebuke and enforce judgement, even save minutes of humiliation. Concern and worry and anger, according to Matthew 6 and James Epistle, don’t serve God’s just purposes.

Yes we should protect and warn… but I am not sure how effective it is for divine purposes. I don’t know what I would do if I was Frank at 80 years. I think rather than ask for a Justice of the Peace judgment, I would ask belated forgiveness and pray for him.

Near death experiencers mention the love, that shame is overwhelmed with love from God, and God calls them to see people in a new light of eternity and love. As coming out of various victimizations myself, it is so hard to live a step into it. I suffer nightmares.

One NDE showed a man Hell, before Heaven, Ian McCormack, youtube and ws a glimpse of eternity. What we deserve and later get. If I can only put my soul’s hands on Jesus’ ankles instead of my adversary’s necks.

Once washed in Jesus blood, the guilt is gone. Jesus sees as differently, not as sinners, salvation in the heart expresses the true person, in surrender. Jesus not Satan defines us. I am the righteousness or justice of God in Christ 2 Cor 5:21.

State law could even be an obstacle to this, and there are hate campaigners who are false Christians - and one who calls Frank and Brian, “sickos” with horrible music…

I refer to Psalm 40, David “my sins are numerous like the hairs on my head.” And “I will not with hold your truth and love from the assembly.” “May those who say ‘Aha, aha’ be put to shame at their own sins.” Alike Jesus with the woman who was to be stoned. “Deliverer”.

David was delivered, sinned again in Psalm 51, and was disciplined by God severely that we shall not blaspheme.

Also Saint Peter, said “Get away from me Lord, I am a sinful man.” But Jesus pressed him to come with him. It was after Peter denied Jesus three times that Jesus asked him three times about his love for Jesus. And mentioned feeding His sheep, sheep, and lambs. And of how he must die in pain.

The Gospel addresses such as children on whom Jesus put His hands on to give them the Holy Spirit, and Nicodemus a just man. And sick people, known to sin, demoniacs, Samaritans with living water. And hypocrites who were condemned, Roman soldiers who despite killing Jesus were forgiven. Mostly to sinners. The New Testament was largely written by Paul, who killed Stephen, that is administrated it. Written often from prison.

I think Frank’s sermons should still be in print.

Moses also struggled with anger, killing an Egyptian and striking the rock to produce water in the wilderness, instead of speaking to it. For which he never entered the promised land.

All Christian traditions hold that God repays, not as our sins deserve. Catholics think there is purgatory. Evil ones believe in God but instead of love or saving justice, have witch hunts, justice/rage, and like the idea of Hell.

I believe in Jesus, justice balanced with mercy, love, sight from that and eternity.

By Novatian on Jul 22, 2010
Re the cover-up:
You’re right, Hazel knew. Frank’s extended family knew also (I know some of them personally) when Frank’s nuclear family moved from NZ to Australia in the 70s - so it is very unlikely that Brian didn’t know at that time. The AoG hierarchy in NZ knew. So it is clear that some Pentecostal pastors did know, and covered up the sin.
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Time moves into the 80s and Frank re-offends - this time not with a minor, but with a trainee pastor who was “disciplined” in a sexual and inappropriate way. That mistreated man did complain to pastors at Christian Life Centre in Sydney city - and I was told in Hills CLC that [name] was making trouble for Frank in the city at that time without any details being shared. Information was always sanitised before being shared with leaders in the pre-Hillsong Church (is it still?) - and despite that ’spin’ the sins were still sin - and yes, it is a messy and multi-faceted issue.
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I hope you never have someone close to you suffer in this type of way. It certainly would make you desire justice to be administered - not revenge, just justice. We are not wise to follow a doctrine of ‘cheap grace’.

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 22, 2010
Over 20 years ago John Piper preached a series on the Pleasures of God. The matter of understanding what pleases God should be of concern to every person who lives. I’ve pasted the sermon on His Pleasure regarding public justice just below, as it is relevant to this discussion…..
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Copyright ©1987, 1996 John Piper

“THE PLEASURE OF GOD IN PUBLIC JUSTICE”

Proverbs 11:1

“A false balance is an abomination to the LORD, but a just weight is his delight.

We have been moving from the inside to the outside of life in the last three weeks. God takes pleasure in those who hope in his love. God delights in the prayers of the upright. God delights in obedience much more than in sacrifice. Hope is deepest within. It expresses itself in prayer. And then the obedience we spoke of is out in the open. But so far we have confined ourselves mainly to what you might call the religious part of life.

Today we move out one last step to that part of life which is not ordinarily considered religious. You might call it the “secular” part of your life, meaning the part where you have ordinary dealings with the world. You might call it the business part of your life. It includes things like filling up your gas tank and buying antiques and punching a time card and paying your taxes.

Does God have an interest in this part of your life? Does he take delight in the way you do things at the store or the office or the shop or the kitchen? Is any wrong behavior in these non-religious areas so significant that God would even call them an abomination?

With this concern we have moved out just about as far as we can go: from hope to prayer to general obedience to non-religious, business life. But there is one more step we could take, and I want to take it today. We could ask, Does God have any delight in the behavior of non-Christian people in the non-religious areas of life?

So we really have two areas to examine before us today: the non-religious, business life of Christians and the non-religious, business life of non-Christians. Does God take delight in any or all of this life? If so why?

The aim, as always, is to clarify the character and nature of God by examining what he loves (remember Henry Scougal’s quote! “The worth of a soul is measured by the object of its love”). But I know that this message will also carry much practical counsel for your daily lives, and so I hope that you will listen for both things.

First of all, let’s take both areas together and simply ask what sorts of things are included in our text, Proverbs 11:1. The verse doesn’t say whether only believers or also unbelievers are in view. It simply says,

A false balance is an abomination to the LORD,
but a just weight is his delight.

The implications here are very far-reaching. But let’s get the specific picture clear in our minds. Suppose you were a merchant in the Old Testament times and you sold corn meal. And suppose that in those days ten cents a pound was a fair price. Someone comes to you and asks to buy five pounds of corn meal. So you reach for your five pound stone and place it in the dish on one side of the scales. Then you take your big bag of meal and start pouring it into the dish on the other side of the scale. You pour until the two dishes swing at the same level. Then you pour the dish full of meal into your customer’s container, and he knows that he has been given the right amount of grain. The size of a five pound stone is fairly common knowledge.

But then suppose that during the night you took a very sharp, hard blade and dug a small hole in the side of the stone and worked it around hollowing out the inside until it weighed only four pounds. Then you covered the little hole over with clay the same color as the stone and let it dry. The next day you don’t use it on the educated and strong because they might make a fuss over the apparently smaller pile of meal and might even examine the stone. But when the child comes on behalf of his mother, and when the widow who is partially blind comes to buy meal, you use your deceitful stone.

Our text says that this is an abomination to the Lord, but that the full weight is his delight.

Now what sorts of acts in the 1980’s are implied in the phrase, “false balances” in Proverbs 11:1? Let me just mention four categories , which are really two different ways of dividing the acts into two categories.

First, this verse refers to sellers and it refers to buyers:

1. It includes acts of selling when the seller does not give goods or services worth the price or the fee that he is charging. You can imagine a gasoline pump that reads a penny more per gallon than it should, or a scale at the grocery store that reads high, or a medicine label that claims too much, or a Realtor who doesn’t tell a buyer about a flooding problem in the house he is selling or a college teacher who hasn’t written a new lecture in ten years and spends his time remodeling his basement.

2. It includes acts of buying when the buyer schemes to pay less than the goods or services are really worth. You can see what God thinks of such an act in Proverbs 20:14 — “‘It is bad, it is bad,’ says the buyer; but when he goes away, then he boasts.” This would include paying some poor vendor in Mexico a ridiculously small sum for a quality rug he had made because he is desperate for a sale and you can take it or leave it. It would include not paying the late penalty on my water bill by dating my check back before the deadline.

The other way to categorize the acts denounced in Proverbs 11:1 it refers to acts of deceit and it refers to acts of injustice.

3. It includes acts that involve deceit in transactions with other people. And so the act expresses a lie. For example, in the next several days as you do your tax returns this verse has something very definite to say about whether your reporting is a delight to God or an abomination to God. Or you might file an insurance claim and lie about the extent of the damages in order to get a better settlement.

4. And the other side of this is that such acts always do an injustice to another person. A person does not get what is his due. For example, you might stick a person with a lemon of a car by not being truthful about its condition when you sell it. Or you might rush a refugee family into signing a lease for an unseen apartment and charge them exorbitant rent and leave the apartment in poor condition with no improvements.

So I hope you can see that all such things are implied in Proverbs 11:1, “A false balance is an abomination to the LORD, but a just weight is his delight.” You can be a deceitful seller or a deceitful buyer. And you can do and injustice to a buyer and you can do an injustice to a seller.

One lesson to be learned from this already is that God has an interest in all our non-religious life. All our business transactions are his concern. God is not so distant or even so “religious” that he only cares about what happens at church and during devotions. Every square inch of this earth is his and every minute of our lives is a loan from his breath. He is much more secular than we often think.

And of course this should make a big difference in the way we live our non-religious lives. Charles Bridges, an evangelical pastor in the Church of England a century ago, asks this searching question: “Is it not a solemn thought, that the eye of God marks all our common dealings of life, either as an abomination or a delight?” Test yourself. Are you being shaped more by the secular spirit of the world or by the spirit of God? The test is this: do you feel that minor business misrepresentations are just part of the game rules of the day or are they an abomination to God?

Now I want to ask the question, Why is a just weight a delight to God in the hand of a believer? And then close by asking, Is a just weight a delight to God in the hand of an unbeliever? If so, Why?

Why is a just weight a delight to God in the hand of a believer? God delights in just and honest dealings from believers because these dealings make their God-honoring faith visible. Just and honest dealings make the saving lordship of God visible. Let me show you one of the places where this is taught explicitly.

In Leviticus 19:35-37 God gives instruction about just weights and balances, and he gives a motive.

You shall do no wrong in judgment, in measures of length or weight or quantity. You shall have just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin: I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt. And you shall observe all my statutes and all my ordinances, and do them: I am the Lord.

How is God motivating honesty and justice here? Notice three things in verse 36:

First he says, “I am the LORD!” That is, “I am Yahweh!” He uses his personal name that he used to Moses just before he brought the people out of Egypt. And you remember he explained the meaning of that name by saying, “I am who I am.” The name implies absoluteness and independence and freedom and sovereignty.

Second, he says, “I am your God!.” In other words, I am for you. I am on your side. My absoluteness and independence and freedom and sovereignty are yours. That is what it means if we can truly say, “Yahweh is my God!”

Third, he says, “I brought you out of the land of Egypt.” This is the specific illustration that demonstrates once and for all for Israel that God is for them. He is their God. He is absolute and free and sovereign — not to destroy but to save his people. For Christians today the death and resurrection of Jesus — the second Exodus — has surpassed the first in value.

Now what does all that have to do with the way you fill out your tax forms in the next two weeks? What does it have to do with just balances and honest weights?

Verse 36 says, “You shall have just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and just hin: I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt.” Surely the point is this:

if you really know that God is the LORD — Yahweh, the absolute, independent, free and sovereign God of the universe;

and if you trust him as YOUR GOD — that he is for you with all his power;

and if your faith is established and encouraged by the great demonstration of God’s love in the Exodus (and the substitutionary death and victorious resurrection of Jesus!),

then you will not need to fudge on your tax returns in order to make sure that you get the most happiness.

You will believe that your omnipotent God has committed himself with all his absolute freedom and sovereign power to rescue you from Egypt and bring you to a land flowing with milk and honey and care for you every step of the way.

That’s what I meant when I said that God delights in just and honest dealings from believers because these dealings make their faith visible. Just and honest dealings make the saving lordship and power of God visible. When a Christian acts with integrity instead of trying to get ahead with deceit, he demonstrates the power and love of the God of the Exodus.

He says, I have a great God to take care of me!

I have a Lord and Master who promises to meet all my needs according to his riches in Glory in Christ Jesus!

I have a pillar of fire to guide me through dark times.

I have a pillar of cloud to show me the way of joy in the day.

I have a fountain of living water that never runs dry and always satisfies my thirst.

How can I lie or deceive as though I were like men who trust in themselves and in their deceitful ingenuity to make a better life for themselves than God can make for me through the obedience of faith?

Proverbs 20:17 says,

Bread gained by deceit is sweet to a man,
but afterward his mouth will be full of gravel.

In other words when we use false balances or lie on our tax returns or misrepresent the facts in our dealings we are declaring that the fleeting sweetness of sin is more to be desired than the everlasting peace of God. This is no honor to God and therefore no delight to his heart. “A false balance is an abomination to the LORD, but a just weight is his delight.”

Now what about unbelievers? There are unbelievers who order their business lives in honest and just ways. Is this a delight to God?

The answer is no and yes, because God looks at the honesty of unbelievers in two different ways.

When God looks at their honesty and justice as an outworking of their inner life of unbelief he does not delight in it because it is sin. Romans 14:23 says, “Whatever is not from faith is sin.”

Honest unbelievers are like a rebellious teenage son who rejects his parents and everything they stand for, and goes to another city. But to make it in the real world, he decides to play by some of their rules. So he gets a job as a cook at a restaurant. Months later his parents happen to visit that city and go to that restaurant. Without knowing that he is there they order one of their favorite delights (call “just balances” or “honest scales”). And without knowing it their own son makes their meal. But back there in the kitchen he is as rebellious as ever. He is not doing it for their sake at all. And so even this act of fixing what they have ordered is an expression of rebellion. And if his parents could be told the truth, they would not rejoice and say, “Oh, how wonderful, our son is now a delight to us, because he made our favorite meal!”

So God does not delight in the honesty and the justice of unbelievers when he sees it as an expression of their rebellious and unbelieving hearts. Acts done without any trust in his grace or any love for God’s glory are not a delight to God.

But there is a sense in which God does delight in the just balances and honest weights of unbelievers, namely, when he looks at their honesty and justice as fragment of his own divine work.

I get this from Proverbs 16:11.

A just balance and scales are the Lord’s;
all the weights in the bag are his work.

I think this means that wherever you find just scales and a bag of honest weights you find the work of God. Justice is God’s creation. Honesty is God’s design. Integrity is the work of God — even in unbelievers; just like their head and heart and hands and feet are his work.

Theologians call this common grace. It isn’t saving grace. It doesn’t get a man to heaven. It is the same grace that makes the sun come every day on the good and the evil and sends rain on the just and the unjust (Mt. 5:43-47). It is the grace that keeps a society from sinking into anarchy. And when God sees the work of his own common grace holding the world back from premature ruin, and giving at least some outward expression to his purposes of justice and honesty, he delights in what he sees.

The honesty and justice of unbelievers is like a sea shell washed up on the beach. There’s no life in it. But it does have a kind of beauty. There is some sturdiness to it and symmetry and order. Life is more enjoyable because this shell exists. It has its uses: you could plant a flower in it; or you could use it to stud your rock wall, or you could teach things from it at school.

So it is with the integrity of unbelievers. It is the leftover shell of holiness. The vestige of the image of God. The residue of something glorious and beautiful in the heart of God. And the very work of his grace preserving and keeping his fallen humanity back from the precipice of anarchy and chaos.

And when God looks on the honesty and justice of his unbelieving and rebellious creatures in this way he delights in their justice and takes pleasure in their honesty. It is the work of his own hands, and the gift of his grace.

Of all the lessons that we could draw out of these truths let me close with just one, and hope that you will make others to your own heart.

Since external conformity of unbelievers to God’s designs of justice and honesty does in one way delight the heart of God, it was right of William Wilberforce to devote 20 years of his life in Parliament to the abolition of English slave trading, even though the great majority of those merchants who gave up the trade did it under constraint and not for any holy reasons at all. It was the work of God’s grace that rid England of the barbarisms of the African slave trade. And therefore the Lord looked down with delight February 22, 1807 when the House of Commons passed the decisive bill.

He delighted most in the living power of holiness in the life of Wilberforce and Henry Thornton as they embraced one another and frolicked in the snow like schoolboys outside the chamber.

And, in a different and mysterious way, God also delighted in the shell of holiness that took shape in English society when it was purged of the slave trade once and for all. For he delights in the work of his hands.

John Wesley, the great evangelist wrote to Wilberforce to strengthen his hand in God. He said,

Unless God has raised you up for this very thing, you will be worn out by the opposition of men and devils, but if God be for you who can be against you? Are all of them together stronger than God? Oh, be not weary in well-doing. . .

There are battles to be fought today in America against manifold injustices and indecencies. May the Lord give us wisdom to know whether we are called to fight like Wesley or to fight like Wilberforce.

…………………………………

There is food to chew on.

By Paul, a small potato on Jul 22, 2010
Moses is referred to. Moses did learn something god those forty years in the wilderness before he saw the burning bush. He fled Egyptian justice. Perhaps you think NZ justice would have done more good for Frank than rebukes and prayers, meditations and Bible readings. Is prison helpful? I would say if he would be prevented from doing harm to someone, surely yes.

Paul preached that he is pleased, that is from the Holy Spirit, if the Gospel is preached from false motive or true. More complex now. Because of very clever misuse, and heresy.

If Frank was to cause harm, he should have gotten help. Perhaps he did. If no other way, he should have turned himself in to government counselors.

Fair scales from Moses, David, Paul… They pleased God, yes they suffered for their unfair scales. Was prison or is prison comparable, or vindictive? And vindication is right.

They were sinners at times.

Ten thousand people received Christ because Frank preached. Your saying he should not have? Or from prison? And after?

That would please God? I can see that protection, and warning from Christian judges is good, and leads to happiness. So Frank and maybe Brian, Hazel and anyone who knew, should have been punished? By courts? And Frank would come out repentant?

Maybe. Maybe for the better? What the victim or victims thought may have been they were ashamed.

I think it is best if the victim of abuse, calls the authorities straight away, and then comes a warning. Diligent. Now it is complex, Frank hid his sins, a practice from Timothy’s Epistle. Confessed in secret, and repented, and followed the Spirit of grace and led people to repentance and salvation. We did not see his suffering. It angers some. That he wasn’t labeled and rejected for life. Always sorry.

He was not unlike David or Mary Magdalene or Paul.

By Novatian on Jul 23, 2010
Admittedly I have little hard evidence on this point, therefore it is pure conjecture - but - how do you measure claims being made by and on behalf of many preachers today, in the 21st. century - many such being soi-disant leaders and having never been ‘called’ - that ‘thousands’ have received Christ because of their ‘anointed ministry’? Why did Jesus say in Matt. 7:14 ‘few there are that find the narrow way to eternal life (in Him)’ Would anyone like to answer this, as I find that these claims cannot be measured until the Day of Salvation - they certainly have never been nor can they be based upon some spurious head-count. I personally believe that even biblical texts “and thousands believed on that day” always indicated a ‘mental assent’ and not heart conviction per sé. Whereas I am always convinced more fully of a binding salvation upon reading (for instance) “Repent and be baptized (water) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins & you shall receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost (being distinctly baptized in Holy Spirit) Mind you, I’m probably completely wrong in my conjectures and everyone of such pastors, leaders, ministers & gospel preachers have been fully (a) born again (b) fully immersed into water baptism and (c) fully immersed into the Holy Spirit by a like baptism - with signs following. Thereby they are quite entitled to know and believe they have been called of God and evidence as appropriate some of the diverse gifts that the Apostle Paul clearly defines in scripture, and granted by Jesus Christ as Holy Spirit Baptizer - two of them being of course, ‘to preach’ &/or ‘to teach’ in Holy Ghost power. However, if anyone foolishly lies about this and make pretence they are ‘called of God’ to do this or that, then conversions might well be ‘insubstantial’ and will not stand the light of Christ on the Day of Salvation and Judgement. Yes, I do love my fellow men, yet I see the need of strong men of God in these the last days, being assuredly empowered by the Holy Spirit. This to counteract the increasing tempo of Apostasy in the church, which in turn is birthing false prophets, teachers and so-called preachers, who are to the discerning, preparing the way for the false prophet and ultimately, anti-Christ, and certainly not a global revival.

By Abraham on Jul 23, 2010
Head counts are not it, they who choose Christ have their convictions, fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 is the best evidence, but also other gifts like a word of knowledge, or at least the gift of praying in tongues.

Reinhard Bonnke works in a team, and when at one time nine million heard him preach live and in open air, three million came forward for the altar call, by how the cards were filled, it was discerned one million by that time in that meeting had received Christ!

Afterward they need grow in Christ likeness, and you can see their worship and enthusiasm, and they struggle with Muslim relatives, sometimes forced to go back, then take Christian counsel.

Salvation involves presence, praise and prayer and the Bible, the Catholics argue Catechism is needed for years for real conversion, but I would say that while important it is sometimes just strong mental assent.

People committing themselves to Jesus cannot be for the anti-Christ.

According to the Bible, there must be a great conversion, before a great turning away.

“The reaper overtakes the sower.” Amos 9:13, and “In the last days many will turn to follow false teachers”… 1 Tim 4:1.

We have the power to discern before the day of salvation. The Bible mentions those do all their work and those who know to but only do part, and the beating the angels will give them. Luke 12:48.

By Novatian on Jul 24, 2010

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PENTECOSTAL DISGRACE - Catch the Fire Honouring the Late Frank Houston

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